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Wingman Formula Force User - Trying to decide on G27

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Im still using a Wingman Formula Force like this...I have 2 of them actually.  Both still going strong.  3701252100_1300371408.jpg

 

I bought the first one in 1998..15 years and thousands of miles and I have never had a single issue.  I recently took it apart and cleaned the pots and regreased the bushings and its as good as ever.  I'm very impressed with the reliability of this wheel, i'm sure the paddles have been shifted and the brake and throttle cycled hundreds of thousands of times.  Needless to say it makes Logitech hard to look past when considering an upgrade.  

 

Anyway, the upgrade time has come, i've never really had a complaint about the wheel, for those of you who are unfamiliar it is a cable driven FF system and quite smooth,  but the pedals leave a lot to be desired.   Im considering the T500 or G27 with a eye on the CSV2 pedals as an upgrade down the road.   Basically im trying to decide whether to go with the G27 or save the money for the T500rs.  The reliability comments about the T500 keep me coming back to the G27 but the "it makes the G27 feel like a toy" comments of the T500 really peak my interest. I HATE the stock T500 stationary paddle shifters, the F1 wheel would be a must buy.... so its a big  purchase for something that doesn't sound that reliable.   So I keep coming back to the Logitech.      

 

I read about a dead spot with the G27....can someone explain that in more detail??  It sounds like something that would bother me.  What is the major con or cons of this wheel?

 

  Ideally I would like to hear from someone who has lots of hours with the Wingman to give me a straight comparison.  Ive never actually raced with the G27 and dont know anyone who owns one.  Ive played with a display unit in a store a couple of times, it felt kind of rough and grindy if thats a word.  I know the pedals are obviously a huge step up.   

 

For any of you older guys like me who originally used a Wingman FF and have moved on, whats your take?  Am I completely underestimating just how much of jump the G27 is or am I wise to consider saving for something better?   I'm older now and much less forgiving of junk and I don't want a toy,  i'm ready for a real nice wheel that will bring as many hours as fun as this thing has, the ECCI even sounds nice and something I could do at some point but I think I will start cheaper, I need a rig and new monitors etc.  

 

I primarily like open wheelers, mostly F1, and  90% PC user.   I don't care anything about the gated shifter or clutch pedal really...not selling points to me.  

 

I would appreciate any thoughts anyone has on the subject....thanks in advance.... :)

  

 

 

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I actually still own a GT Force, which is very similar to your Wingman, and I have owned a G27 for a few years. The G27 is great, a serious upgrade from a GT Force, or even the Driving Force Pro and GT wheels they made later.The G27 is solidly built and reliable. The steering feel is much better thanks to a better gearing system and a larger, better rim, although it is still small enough to make sense as a F1 style wheel.. The 6 face buttons work great for your vital F1 functions like KERS and DRS, ect... Metal paddles feel and work exactly as they should. The pedals are solid and easy to modify to a 2 pedal F1 kind of configuration. The hardware dead zone is a little spot in the dead center where the wheel goes kinda quite. It is a necessary thing due to the gearing system, and it has never bothered me. Overall I would say the G27 makes the GT Force feel like a toy.

 

So... I also have a T500 with the F1 wheel. The T500 IS better, and it is certainly for the more serious driving game fan. The F1 wheel is cool as heck too... great fun in F1 2012, and I would imagine a serious F1 fan would just adore having something that looks like the real thing like this on their rig. However... a T500 + F1 wheel is triple the money of a G27! Is it triple the wheel? No, I don't think so. But it is better, stronger and delivers a more real feel, and to some folks I am sure that's worth the extra. Not me tho. If I had had to pay full price for my T500 I would still be using my G27. I am not the most serious racer on the block tho, I just like the bigger GT wheel, stronger FFB and the ability to change wheels, and the inverted pedals are cool too. As for reliability, I have a V1. and so far so good!

 

So I hope this helps. I think you will walk out happy either way, It is a long way up from your good old Wingman.

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my advice, keep that wheel and spend your cash on triples, then once you got your screens set up get a g27, ignore the talk of deadspots and just enjoy it, its a great wheel. and then start saving for a fanatec csw and cspv2's or the thrustmaster. whichever way you go if your thinking of doing em go triple first

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Thank you for the replies,  I appreciate the comments on the comparison of the two wheels, and it sounds like we are coming from the same place in that regard.    I am definitely in the less serious camp, that and the need for other gear makes the G27 the logical choice.  Next time I see it on amazon around the $200 mark I think I will go for it.  

 

The monitor advice is good too.... the last few years (42 this year) my eyes began to change a lot, I bought a 23" and its still too small.  The want list just goes on and on doesn't it...  too many hobbies too little time! 

 

Thanks again for the input much appreciated     

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Thank you for the replies,  I appreciate the comments on the comparison of the two wheels, and it sounds like we are coming from the same place in that regard.    I am definitely in the less serious camp, that and the need for other gear makes the G27 the logical choice.  Next time I see it on amazon around the $200 mark I think I will go for it.  

 

The monitor advice is good too.... the last few years (42 this year) my eyes began to change a lot, I bought a 23" and its still too small.  The want list just goes on and on doesn't it...  too many hobbies too little time! 

 

Thanks again for the input much appreciated     

Happy to help! 

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I actually still own a GT Force, which is very similar to your Wingman, and I have owned a G27 for a few years. The G27 is great, a serious upgrade from a GT Force, or even the Driving Force Pro and GT wheels they made later.The G27 is solidly built and reliable. The steering feel is much better thanks to a better gearing system and a larger, better rim, although it is still small enough to make sense as a F1 style wheel.. The 6 face buttons work great for your vital F1 functions like KERS and DRS, ect... Metal paddles feel and work exactly as they should. The pedals are solid and easy to modify to a 2 pedal F1 kind of configuration. The hardware dead zone is a little spot in the dead center where the wheel goes kinda quite. It is a necessary thing due to the gearing system, and it has never bothered me. Overall I would say the G27 makes the GT Force feel like a toy.

 

So... I also have a T500 with the F1 wheel. The T500 IS better, and it is certainly for the more serious driving game fan. The F1 wheel is cool as heck too... great fun in F1 2012, and I would imagine a serious F1 fan would just adore having something that looks like the real thing like this on their rig. However... a T500 + F1 wheel is triple the money of a G27! Is it triple the wheel? No, I don't think so. But it is better, stronger and delivers a more real feel, and to some folks I am sure that's worth the extra. Not me tho. If I had had to pay full price for my T500 I would still be using my G27. I am not the most serious racer on the block tho, I just like the bigger GT wheel, stronger FFB and the ability to change wheels, and the inverted pedals are cool too. As for reliability, I have a V1. and so far so good!

 

So I hope this helps. I think you will walk out happy either way, It is a long way up from your good old Wingman.

 

I couldn't agree with this more.  I too was a GT Force owner way back when.  I "upgraded" to the G25 in 2008 and it enhanced my experience more than I ever thought it would.  I still run the G25 today (with the Nixim V2 Brake Mod) and it does everthing I would want it to.

 

I do have day-dreams of plunging for the T500, but, when I am sat at my wheel, pedal to the metal, I never feel that it falls short.

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I finally went for it and picked up a new G27.  It came in the newer mostly black box with the blue x ray looking image of the wheel.    The Part # on the box is 941-000045.  The part # on the wheel itself is 841-000042.
 
 Compared to my old Wingman Formula Force I am not blown away.   It is obviously more refined in build but the clunky FFB is a bummer compared to the smoothness of the Wingman.   There are moments it feels pretty good, sometimes over the curbs it will be a chunky, solid (quiet) sensation, but  in the next corner it will feel like a loud rattly plastic toy more often than not.  Its so loud I can hear it through my headphones.  I am not sure I can ever get used to this.  It is somewhat manageable by turning down the settings, but then why have a FFB wheel?    Also the shape of the wheel is very uncomfortable around my thumbs after 20 minutes or so.  The leather is nice, but the shape is not.   I could drive my Wingman for hours with no issues... no comparison there.  Personally I find the shifter a bit gimmicky and toy like, I will never use it, but I love the extra buttons.    I dont feel any dead zone, there is instant resistance in either direction.  
 
Also I expected to feel more effects,  part of my curiosity about newer wheels started when I read a post from Logitech explaining why they no longer support the Wingman.  They said it was Serial port technology adapted to USB and due to bandwidth issues it could not process or store the same number of effects as the newer wheels and couldn't handle modern titles.  So I really started to wonder what effects I must be missing.  Turns out, none.   On Assetto Corsa, F1 2013 and iRacing I get the same effects from the Wingman as the G27.  That was a bit of a let down(but granted it is based on built up expectations).  The major difference being the Wingman is MUCH smoother and the G27 is much stronger.  The Wingman always had slop in the steering shaft even right out of the box, the G27 is very tight and feels more precise because of it.  FYI Since Logitech abandoned the Wingman I am using an Saitek 440 driver in Win 7 that a person smarter than I adapted to the Wingman.  The FFB is better than it ever was with any Logitech driver.  
 
The G27 pedals are much much better,  no comparison there. I read many times that swapping springs was a must do.  I dont know if Logitech has changed anything, but the stock springs feel good to me.  The gas is light and easy but not too light. The brake is just heavy enough without being too stiff, you could almost say it's progressive but  it could just be the spring loading up giving me that impression.  But in stock form I see no reason to swap any springs around.    I can honestly say I beat most of my lap times in pretty short order due to the better pedals.  Very cool!   
 
Anyway, that is my impression.  I realize comparing it to a 16 year old wheel is meaningless to most, but it's all I have to compare it to.  It says a lot more about the Wingman than it does the G27.   I will give it some more time, but ultimately the clunky FFB completely kills the immersion factor for me.   Its too bad you have to spend so much more money for a smoother wheel,  they should have just kept the cable driven technology that is inside the Wingman (same company - Immersion Corporation/I Force Technology is trademarked in both the Wingman and G27).  
 
I think the G27 as a package is probably worth the money. It is a nice piece of kit, but for me its about pros/cons. With smoother FFB and a better shaped wheel I would be sold.  I am probably going to return the G27 and spend the money on the Club Sport Pedals instead.  

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Gear chatter. Yeah, it was kind of a shock to me at first, then an annoyance, but eventually I tuned it out. I don't remember if it went away or if I just wasn't listening for it anymore. I can see how if your Wingman is a cable driven wheel that moving to the gear driven G27 might be a shock tho... I honestly never knew Logitech did a cable or belt drive wheel, I thought they were always gear drive.

 

EDIT: Ah ha, I see they did make a later model called the Formula Force GP that is the same as the GT Force, but red grips instead of blue.

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