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Fanatec Review?

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We've finished filming the pedal review and are still working on the wheel. Pedal review will go to post production today for editing.

 

Shaun has been driving with the wheel the last few weeks. Next I will take it over for a bit to see what I think as well. 

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Sorry but I don't understand what problems you or someone had with Fanatec? to be honest I don't really care but I did sense some hostility towards Fanatec which was a little confusing. Maybe I should not have said anything so sorry if I offended anyone. Not intended.


Still, looking forward to the review. I love my CSW it's a real work of art and sure you all will love yours too.  Make sure you are using Linea mode and if you need any help getting the right FFB there is a guy called Clayton who can analyse your telemetry and tell you the true FFB setting for each car, track and even car setup in iRacing. And believe me it's different on all cases. I am sure you guys know what you are doing but just in case there is some science behind getting our wheels right. Maybe you guys can do some more stuff on this as it was very hard for me to get things right until I found this guy to help.


Good luck and looking forward to the show. You guys have a lot of my respect which is hard to get. Sending some good energy your ways 



 

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Sorry but I don't understand what problems you or someone had with Fanatec? to be honest I don't really care but I did sense some hostility towards Fanatec which was a little confusing. Maybe I should not have said anything so sorry if I offended anyone. Not intended.

Still, looking forward to the review. I love my CSW it's a real work of art and sure you all will love yours too.  Make sure you are using Linea mode and if you need any help getting the right FFB there is a guy called Clayton who can analyse your telemetry and tell you the true FFB setting for each car, track and even car setup in iRacing. And believe me it's different on all cases. I am sure you guys know what you are doing but just in case there is some science behind getting our wheels right. Maybe you guys can do some more stuff on this as it was very hard for me to get things right until I found this guy to help.

Good luck and looking forward to the show. You guys have a lot of my respect which is hard to get. Sending some good energy your ways 

 

 

Do you have a link to these settings for the CSW or where I can find "Clayton" ?  I'd like to know the settings mainly for iRacing. I'm currently feeling like some effects are missing fromt he force feedback compared to Thrustmaster and Logitech wheels. 

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Sure Darin,

 

Clayton Macleod [[email protected]] he is a great guy and is doing a project getting FFB setting for all wheels out there not just the CSW. So please contact him.  And that goes for everyone now matter what wheel you have. Clayton will tell you your true FFB settings and it's helped me so much. I wish iRacing and Fanatec would sort this out as most don't even know how good thier weels are. And I mean all wheels too.

 

What I suggest is you turn linea on, put it smewhere between 35 and 40 FFB and do a few clean laps (at least one) but turn on telemetry and record the lap/s. Then when you contact clayton just send the telemetry and he will tell you the scientific setting for the track and car and even car setup. 

 

Honestly, I was so lost and only just fixed iRacing the last few days. My name is Richard Papa and all are welcome to look me up for some fun.

 

Good luck and you will not believe the feeling you will get once you have the right setting. I can now feel front and rear wheels moving in the turns. Just smashed some A class drivers in some OP just now too.  Happy days :)

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Do you have a link to these settings for the CSW or where I can find "Clayton" ?  I'd like to know the settings mainly for iRacing. I'm currently feeling like some effects are missing fromt he force feedback compared to Thrustmaster and Logitech wheels. 

If you want to try Project CARS with it, heres the setting

 

CSW.jpg

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I run sen off,FF 100,dri off,abs off,lin off,dea off,spr off,for 100,and dpr off.

 

In game I check linear and have FFB strength set around 20.I use 0 dampening.

 

I also calibrate my wheel for 880 degrees of rotation not 900.After I turn the wheel one way then the other I center it by eye not by the numbers.Then when I turn the wheel 90 degrees to the left I do that by eye also and end up at 880.Then I center the wheel to 0 using the calibration numbers.

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Clayton McLeod is the iRacer who kindly posted this informative thread,  http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/2023748.page

 

He details the optimal "in driver",  "on wheel" (fanatec),  and "in iRacing" settings for a few of the most common wheels.

 

He explains the use of McLaren ATLAS to examine telemetry as a method of ascertaining the optimal FFB strength for each car,  at each track.   (Setups can affect the number as well.)

 

McLaren ATLAS and the iRacing plug-in is hosted here,

 

http://members.iracing.com/membersite/member/instruction.jsp

 

The maximum range of the FFB strength slider in iRacing was increased in a recent build,   some cars require higher ffb strenght settings to better take advantage of the capabilities of the various wheels.

 

 

Clayton Macleod, Posted

 

There are a few threads discussing FFB in the forums, as well as some dated information in them, and obviously lots of discussion.  I'm going to try to keep an updated log of the latest information so that we can more easily get optimal settings into everybody's hands.  I'll do my best to keep this as current as possible.  This means that you only need to read this first post to get the most recent information.  The rest of the thread is going to contain dated information that may no longer apply.  :mrgreen:

Goal: The most detailed, linear FFB response, in order to get the most out of your wheel.  All of our wheels are obviously weaker than would be required to give us feedback at the same strength as a real car, so we have to make the most of our wheels in order to get the most detailed feedback.  In a nutshell, that means cranking up FFB as high as possible without running into the motor strength limit, as you would be losing information beyond that limit.  That is the 'clipping' phenomenon everyone talks about, and is what you would like to avoid.  This will utilize as much of the motor strength as possible to give us the most detail possible.

The only time you would not want to use such a setting is if you simply prefer to not have the wheel that strong.  But the reason we want it as strong as possible is that each wheel only has a given amount of strength, and a given number of strength steps between maximum strength and zero.  So the stronger we have it set for, while remaining below max for the important details, the greater range of detail we will be able to feel.

Driver settings

If you have a wheel not listed, respond with the info for that wheel and I'll add it in here.

Logitech

Overall Effects Strength: 100% (Not 106%?! See Min. Force discussion below.)
Spring Effect Strength: 0%
Damper Effect Strength: 100% (Why? See FFB Damping in next section.)
Centering Spring: Unchecked
Report Combined Pedals: Unchecked
Rotation: 900°
Allow Game To Adjust: Checked

Fanatec

Drivers:
Autocenter spring: Unchecked, if it exists. Setting removed from later drivers.
Wheel Angle: 900°
Dampening strength: 100% (Why? See FFB Damping in next section.)
Combined pedals: Unchecked

Wheel menu:
Sen: Off (This means it uses the driver setting for wheel angle.)
FF: 100
For: 100 (This is only on newer wheels, CSW, CSR-E)
Sho: 100
Dri: Off
ABS: Off
Lin: 000
Dea: 000
Spr: 0
Dpr: 0

Thrustmaster TR500

Rotation: 900°
Master: 60% (This is the same as 100% in other wheels.  Beyond 60% risks extra clipping.)
Constant: 100%
Periodic: 100%
Spring: 100%
Damper: 100% (Why? See FFB Damping in next section.)
Auto-centering spring: By the game

Sim settings:

FFB Damping: 0% will give you the most detailed FFB.  However, since this used to be hardcoded to 75% in the sim, you may prefer how that feels, in which case 75% is what you want this at.  If you can't immediately get used to 0%, but wish you could, try lowering this value 10% a week to ween yourself off it.  You will end up with more FFB detail if you can get yourself down to 0%.

Now, I believe the reason for setting 100% dampening in your wheel's drivers is that the sim's setting is a percentage of what you have set in the drivers.  So if you have 0% set in the sim, it doesn't matter what setting you have in your drivers.  But if you set 0% in your drivers, and then decide you want to try the old sim default of 75%, for example, then you won't feel any difference.  After all, 75% of nothing is nothing.  So in order for the damping slider in the sim to have any affect, you must have it turned on in the drivers.  If you have the drivers set for less than 100%, let's say 50%, then the sim's setting will be a combination of the two.  50% in the drivers and 50% in the sim means an actual total of 25% damping.

FFB Strength: Depends on car and track in question.  However, we will go over some general settings below.  It should be noted that except for personal preference with regard to how much strength you want to use, your wheel does not affect the FFB value you set in the sim.  One wheel doesn't need a different setting from another wheel, and the wheel does not affect the calculations that the sim makes.  The calculations the sim makes with regard to FFB are only affected by the track you're on, the car itself and the car setup.  You will have very different settings for different cars.

Whether or not you want to use different settings for the same car when you're on different tracks is another matter.  I choose to use the same setting for all tracks, so that I get a better feel for the car by giving muscle memory a better chance to develop.  But with that being said, it certainly is possible to use a different setting for each track in order to really maximize your use of your wheel's capability.

New FFB features as of 2012 Season 3/4 build:

There are some new FFB features introduced in those builds.  One is a "Min force" feature that allows you to dial out a FFB deadzone so that you get better feedback around center.  In order to properly set this feature, some investigation is required.  David Tucker has written a Wheel Check utility that contains numerous tests, one of which is quite helpful in setting up the new value.

What this setting does is allow you to tell the sim to use at least this amount of force when playing back any force.  This allows you to figure out the smallest force your wheel is capable of playing back, and telling the sim that even if it wants to play back a force smaller than your setting, it should round it up to this amount instead.  Your wheel requires a certain amount of force to overcome internal friction, and this allows you to take that into account.  This helps smaller forces to be felt, rather than lost below the capabilities of the wheel.  This makes the feeling of the wheel around center, especially, much more natural.

This new feature/setting is a better fix for this problem than things tried previously, such as the 106% driver force workaround for Logitech wheels suggested in the past.  This is why 100% is listed for Logitechs in the settings listed above.  However, this is not a Logitech-specific fix, as all wheels are likely to be subject to the same problem, though to varying degrees.  Even different examples of the same brand/model wheel can differ from each other, so it is important to run the tests yourself and figure out your own wheel's value.  One G27 might be 0.12, and another could be 0.09, for example.  Only way to tell is to run the tests yourself on your wheel.

Download Wheel Check from the first post of the Wheel Check thread here.  Currently, v1.62 is the latest version.  You'll need v1.57 or newer for the second part of the testing.

Update:  As of v1.60, David has added a test specifically designed for finding this base offset value.  It runs much quicker than the more detailed step2 test, and from the sounds of it may find its way into the sim itself sooner or later.  For now, I'll leave the section below since the test is still useful in other ways.  But now we have the much faster "Min force" test to find this value.

Once you've downloaded the latest version, unzip it, and run it.  As I said, the new test is called Min force, and this will run very quickly compared to the method below.  It will only take 10-12 seconds to run, versus ~2 minutes or so per run for the other test, and will give you the actual value needed later without having to do any math.  ;)  It may not be as accurate as the longer method, but it should be pretty close and usable anyway.  As with the other test, don't touch the wheel while it runs.  You can see where to select the test to run here, in this screenshot.

wheel%20check%20min%20force%201.png

Once it is finished running, you can look down at the bottom of the window to find out the value you need to set in the sim, as seen here.

wheel%20check%20min%20force%202.png

The 8.0% value listed in that screenshot is the result for my Fanatec GT3RSv2 and a beta firmware, and would relate to a force value of 800 in the older step2 test.  It should be noted that this is slightly different from the result of the step2 test discussed below.  The new test is reporting the last zero result, rather than the first non-zero result.  It seems that Logitech wheels may feel better using the last zero result, while I find my Fanatec feels better with the first non-zero result.  So it may be worthwhile to try the reported value as-is with your wheel, and also the next step up and see if you prefer one or the other.  In this case, with a reported result of 8.0% I would try that, and then also try 8.5 and see what I like.  Since the sim only uses even-numbered tenths I would probably try 8.4 or 8.6 and see if one was better than the other.  In my case, I found good results with 8.4% and that's what I have set here.

sim%20min%20force%20setting.png

OK, end of update.  You can skip down to the steeringFFBLinearForce section now if you like.

Once you have that, unzip it, and run it.  When you're in Wheel Check you are interested in running the Step 2 test, which you'll find in the Spring Force menu as seen here.  For Logitech and Fanatec owners, and perhaps others, you shouldn't have to touch any other settings.  Thrustmaster TR500 owners may have to set the Sleep value at the bottom of the window to 10 ms instead of 1 ms, and/or you may also need to uncheck 'Always update forces' in order to successfully run the test.

wheel%20check%201st%20run.png

Do not touch the wheel during the test.  (One user with a very strong ECCI wheel reported being concerned for the safety of his wheel during the last bunch of high-strength steps, as the wheel started looking as though it was going to reach the wheel stops and bang into them.  He decided when it started getting that strong to grab the wheel and prevent it from doing so.  This is fine, as it will not affect the lower strength results, which is what we are interested in.)  This test centers your wheel, and then plays a force back for a certain amount of time and records how much movement there is at that strength, if any.  It centers it again, and goes a step up in strength, and repeats this until the test finishes.  It should look similar to this as it runs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BngPZNYEE8

This will take around two minutes to complete.  When it finishes you will have a log file named something like log2 2012-08-04 14-04-42.csv in your Documents folder.  Load this up in your spreadsheet program and have a look at the deltaX column.

results%201st%20run.png

Here you can see for my wheel the first deltaX value that is greater than zero is at the force strength of 600.  This gives us a general idea of where the base offset value will lie for this wheel.  In order to get a more accurate figure, we will run the Step 2 test again in Wheel Check, but with a modification.

wheel%20check%202nd%20run.png

Here you can see that I have moved the Saturation X slider so that the value shown is the next step up from the 600 shown in the previous test, in this case, 610.  Once that is set, go into the Spring Force menu again and select the Step 2 test again.  It will run the test as before, only this time it will use smaller force steps, using the slider value as the maximum force to test.  Once this finishes, you'll have another file with more detailed results.  In my case, you can see the result this time is 524.

results%202nd%20run.png

*Note: You can now set this directly in the sim's Options screen.  Editing the ini file is no longer necessary.  If you're using the step2 test to gain better accuracy than the minimum force test above, then you will be dividing by 100 to get a percentage, and not 10000 as listed in the next paragraph.  Also, note that the values I list here for my wheel are not all from the same firmware revision, so that's why they differ from other parts of this post.

Now make sure you exit the sim and then go into your Documents folder, into the iRacing folder, and open the app.ini file with Notepad or some other text editor.  You cannot make changes to this file while the sim is running, and the sim only reads these settings during startup.  Scroll down to the [Misc] section and look for the steeringFFBBaseOffset variable (THIS NO LONGER EXISTS, and was replaced by the Minimum Force value in the sim), and set this according to your Step 2 test results divided by 10000.  In my case I would use steeringFFBBaseOffset=0.0524 or 0.0512, perhaps trying both and seeing if I preferred one or the other.  Personally, I find the first-movement value (524 in my results) better than the last-zero value (512 in my results).  You may find you prefer one over the other, or may even tweak it a bit lower.  I would suggest, however, that you try the first-movement value for at least an hour or two and see if you like it after getting used to the change.  It will feel quite different at first, but it does take some getting used to before you should really make up your mind.  After an hour or two of getting used to it, try the last-zero value instead and see if you like it more or less than the first-movement value.  I would bet you'll end up preferring the first-movement value, but it *is* going to be a personal preference.

steeringBumpStop_Deg

Several cars in the service have lock-to-lock steering angles smaller than 900°, but it would be a little annoying to change your wheel's settings every time you got into a different car in order to match that car.  Luckily we now have a software bump stop feature that uses a FFB force to relay to you when you have reached the end of the car's steering range.  This means if you are in a car that only has a 450° steering range, once you reach the car's limit the sim will start playing a force to resist moving the wheel further to let you know you've reached that limit, and that turning the wheel further won't actually make any difference.  Depending on how strong your wheel's motors are, you may want to adjust this from the default of 15° to compensate.  The setting is in degrees, and what the default of 15° would mean in the case of a 450° car is that once you've turned your wheel past 450° the sim will start resisting you with a FFB force that reaches 100% at the 465° mark.  For most wheels this is fine.  If you have a wheel that is much stronger than the average wheel, 15° might be so short of a range that the strength of your wheel makes you bounce back and forth off the limit.  If you find your wheel doing this, then increasing the value to something higher than 15° will help.  You'll have to experiment to find a suitable value in that case.

steeringFFBLinearForce

*note: This has actually been changed to a checkmark in the sim's options screen.  You no longer need to edit the ini file to set this.

This is a simple on/off toggle variable that determines whether or not you want to use the new linear mode for FFB (1 for on), or whether you want to continue using the old non-linear method (0 for off).  If you leave this off, which is the default, then the FFB in the sim will be the same as it was before this build.  And this means your old setting for in-game FFB will also give you the same results as it did before, concerning the range of FFB forces.  If you decide to turn this feature on, however, then your old FFB settings will no longer apply.  You will have to determine a new setting, and there are several considerations in determining this new setting.  The method for using telemetry and the Atlas telemetry app is described below.

That method outlined below only applies for those that will be using the new linear FFB option.  If you are going to continue using the old non-linear option then these steps will not apply directly.  There is a similar method in that case, which uses a different workbook, but I did not go over this method because I do not see why anyone would want to use the old non-linear option.  The new linear option just feels so much better once you get used to it, that I do not know why anyone would want to stay with the old option.  However, I could include that at some point if anyone asks.

steeringFFBSmooth

This setting is actually not new to this 2012 Season 3 build.  It was actually added in an earlier build, but only now seems to have been noticed by some people as they're setting up the other new features.  Really, you don't need to be concerned with this setting, and it should be left at its default of steeringFFBSmooth=1.000000 for pretty much everyone in pretty much every case.  When set to 1.0 it means that 100% of the current force is what gets played back to the wheel.  This should be what is desired by all people, really.  Setting this to something below 1.0 means that the force getting played back to the wheel is a mixture of the current force and an average of forces from the past.  This was supposed to be a kind of low-pass filter aimed at smoothing out the response of Fanatec wheels specifically, which David Tucker felt played back high-frequency transient forces oddly.  While that may be his take on things with those wheels, I think it may be a personal preference kind of thing.  At the time this feature was introduced, we were at Sebring in the Williams, and when I played around with this setting and my Fanatec GT3v2, all I noticed it did was make the wheel feel like it had a lot of delay in it.  As you see the car going over bumps on the screen, you would not feel those bumps in the wheel for what felt like a very long time.  It made it feel quite strange as a result, and made it impossible for me to adjust for what was happening to the car because I was feeling things way after they had actually happened.  I'd recommend everybody simply leaving this at the 1.0 default, so all you get are forces that are happening right now, rather than combining it with stuff in the past.

FFB Setting Per Car

I'll show how to use Atlas to determine your FFB setting for a given car, and eventually I'd like this to include suggested general settings for in-game FFB for every car, as well.  That data would be useful to those that do not want to bother setting up Atlas and finding their own values.  Some may prefer to find this value for themselves, however, so the Atlas method will be valuable to them.  However, since I really only drive the Williams with any frequency I was hoping I could get some help from other drivers for all the other cars.  All I'd like is a telemetry file from each car from a representative track for that car/series.  It would need to contain a few laps at most, though more doesn't hurt.  As long as there's one clean lap where you don't go 4x4ing or hit 9 million curbs, it should do the trick.  Doesn't need to be a PB lap, just a decent average pace and clean.

For the road series cars, it seems as though Phillip Island would be the most help.  So if you have that track, laps from that would be great.  I believe that was the track with the second strongest forces from 2012 Season 2 in the Williams that I had telemetry on-hand to look at, but the first strongest may have been an anomaly.  I think Phillip Island laps would be very good for setting a general FFB setting for all tracks in a particular road car, though.

* Note: I no longer think it makes sense to go with a one-size-fits-all approach for your FFB setting.  I think it makes the car feel too different from track to track if you just use the same FFB setting all the time, and you will be much better off to figure out your optimal FFB setting every week.  This way, differences in how that week's track makes the car behave will be accounted for, and with a tailored optimal FFB setting the car should feel more consistent from week to week.  Not to mention you will be getting the most out of your wheel each week that way.  So it is probably best to ignore the Phillip Island/Charlotte idea, and figure it out each week.  It is a *very* quick process once you figure it out the first time, as once you know what you're doing it won't take you any time at all.

For the oval series cars, I *think* Charlotte was mentioned, but I'll have to double-check that.  But obviously certain classes wouldn't run on those tracks anyway, such as cars that only run on shorter tracks, so laps from a typical track instead will also do.  Here's the list of cars, and whether or not I still need telemetry for it, or if I already have some for that car.  Some may have a suggested FFB value listed because I already have data for that car, or may have a suggested FFB value but I would still like to have telemetry data for it.  So if a particular road car has a suggested setting listed, but still shows NEED then I probably took telemetry from a track other than Phillip Island, and would still like to get some Phillip Island telemetry for that road car, for example.  I've also listed in parentheses the maximum torque that this setting will play before clipping, and sometimes the track that was tested, too.  But this does not mean that the setting is only good for that one track.

I still wouldn't mind receiving telemetry files from any track for any car, actually.  It all helps develop a better picture.  So even if a car below doesn't say NEED, telemetry would still be great.  Thanks!  (The reason some of these averages may not look correct is because the FFB values are rounded to the nearest 0.2, and the averages are calculated with more precise data, before they get rounded to the nearest 0.2 for the final FFB value.)

* 2013 Season 1 build has been released, and it seems as though most/all cars are going to need relatively significant changes to their FFB strength setting now.  You are probably better off ignoring values listed from previous seasons.  I don't think any of these recommendations from builds previous to the new one will be very accurate any more.  For example, Suzuka in the Williams seems to have changed from 20.6 for me in the previous build, to at least 23.0 now in the new build.  Perhaps higher, even.  Haven't had enough time testing in the car yet, but it is definitely different enough from the last build to warrant looking at again.  This simply means running laps again and checking in Atlas again, same routine as always.  Since the 2013 S1 build changed FFB so drastically, I have stopped counting data from previous builds in the averages.  So, unless it is the only data I currently have, none of the pre-2013-S1 data is counted in the averages now.  And I have noted the previous data below by putting it in italics.

Road

Cadillac CTS-V - average of listed tracks: 13.8 FFB (Max. 24.64 Nm)
----- Infineon (2012 S3): 12.0 FFB (Max. 28.33 Nm) (Joao Borges)
----- Phillip Island (2012 S3): 16.0 FFB (Max. 21.25 Nm) (John Erich)
Corvette - NEED
Dallara - NEED
Ford V8SC - average of listed tracks: 11.4 FFB (Max. 29.82 Nm)
----- Phillip Island (2012 S3): 11.4 FFB (Max. 29.82 Nm) (Matthew Nethercote)
Ford GT - average of listed tracks: 21.8 FFB (Max. 15.60 Nm)
----- Daytona (2013 S1): 23.8 FFB (Max. 14.29 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Mosport (2013 S1): 20.4 FFB (Max. 16.67 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Ford Mustang - average of listed tracks: 49.0 FFB (Max. 6.94 Nm)
----- Suzuka (2013 S1): 49.0 FFB (Max. 6.94 Nm) (Christian Starkow)
HPD - average of listed tracks: 10.2 FFB (Max. 33.33 Nm)
----- Laguna Seca (2012 S3): 11.2 FFB (Max. 30.36 Nm) (John Erich)
----- Phillip Island (2012 S3): 8.4 FFB (Max. 40.48 Nm) (John Erich)
----- Suzuka (2012 S3): 13.0 FFB (Max. 26.15 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Watkins Glen Boot (2012 S3): 9.2 FFB (Max. 36.96 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
Jetta - NEED
Lotus 79 - average of listed tracks: 16.6 FFB (Max. 20.48 Nm)
----- Mosport (2012 S3 OTM!) - 16.6 FFB (Max. 20.48 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
McLaren MP4-12C - average of listed tracks: 20.0 FFB (Max. 17.00 Nm)
----- Mosport (2013 S1): 20.0 FFB (Max. 17.00 Nm) (Carlos Pedros Vasconcelos)
MX-5 Cup - average of listed tracks: 40.2 FFB (Max. 8.46 Nm)
----- Laguna Seca (2013 S1): 41.4 FFB (Max. 8.21 Nm) (Richard Papa)
----- Lime Rock Park (2013 S1): 35.8 FFB (Max. 9.50 Nm) (Richard Papa)
----- Lime Rock Park (2013 S1): 34.8 FFB (Max. 9.77 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- Okayama (2013 S1): 45.4 FFB (Max. 7.49 Nm) (Richard Papa)
----- Watkins Glen Classic (2013 S1): 41.4 FFB (Max. 8.21 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- Zolder (2013 S1): 44.8 FFB (Max. 7.59 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
MX-5 Roadster - NEED
Radical - average of listed tracks: 15.4 FFB (Max. 22.08 Nm)
----- Phillip Island (2012 S3): 15.4 FFB (Max. 22.08 Nm) (Paul Thurston)
Riley - average of listed tracks: 20.0 FFB (Max. 17.00 Nm)
----- Suzuka (2013 S1): 20.0 FFB (Max. 17.00 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Skippy - average of listed tracks: 31.0 FFB (Max. 10.97 Nm)
----- Oran Park (2013 S1): 28.4 FFB (Max. 11.97 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Suzuka (West Chicane) (2013 S1): 34.4 FFB (Max. 9.88 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Solstice - average of listed tracks: 38.4 FFB (Max. 8.85 Nm)
----- Lime Rock Park (2013 S1): 38.4 FFB (Max. 8.85 Nm)
Spec Ford - average of listed tracks: 33.6 FFB (Max. 10.12 Nm)
----- Barber (2013 S1): 37.6 (Max. 9.04 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Brands Hatch (2013 S1): 31.6 FFB (Max. 10.76 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Oran Park (2013 S1): 31.6 FFB (Max. 10.76 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- Phillip Island (2013 S1): 34.0 FFB (Max. 10.00 Nm) (Alan Harding)
Star Mazda - average of listed tracks: 20.6 FFB (Max. 16.50 Nm)
----- Interlagos (2013 S1): 20.6 FFB (Max. 16.50 Nm) (Clayton Macleod w/ setup from Paulo Langner)
Williams - average of listed tracks: 22.4 FFB (Max. 15.18 Nm)
----- Interlagos (2013 S1): 25.0 FFB (Max. 13.60 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Road America (2013 S1): 23.0 FFB (Max. 14.78 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Sebring (2013 S1): 21.0 FFB (Max. 16.19 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Silverstone GP (2013 S1): 22.4 FFB (Max. 15.18 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Sonoma (2013 S1): 19.2 FFB (Max. 17.71 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Spa (2013 S1): 24.6 FFB (Max. 13.82 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Suzuka (2013 S1): 21.6 FFB (Max. 15.74 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Twin Ring Motegi (2013 S1): 26.4 FFB (Max. 12.88 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- VIR (2013 S1): 24.6 FFB (Max. 13.82 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Watkins Glen Boot (2013 S1): 20.0 FFB (Max. 17.00 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)
----- Zandvoort (2013 S1): 20.8 FFB (Max. 16.35 Nm) (Clayton Macleod)


Oval

Class A Gen 6 - average of listed tracks: 18.6 FFB (Max. 18.28 Nm)
----- Atlanta (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 14.6 FFB (Max. 23.29 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Bristol (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 12.2 FFB (Max. 27.87 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Chicagoland (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 25.4 FFB (Max. 13.39 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Chicagoland (12:1 steering) (2013 S1): 24.8 FFB (Max. 12.71 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Las Vegas (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 14.4 FFB (Max. 23.61 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Martinsville (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 24.6 FFB (Max. 13.82 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Michigan (8:1 steering)  (2013 S1): 19.4 FFB (Max. 17.53 Nm) (Allen Thomas)
----- Texas (12:1 steering) (2013 S1): 25.6 FFB (Max. 13.28 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Class A Impala - average of listed tracks: 14.2 FFB (Max. 23.94 Nm)
----- Bristol (2012 S3): 14.2 FFB (Max. 23.94 Nm) (David Elliot)
Class B Impala - average of listed tracks: 35.4 FFB (Max. 9.60 Nm)
----- Richmond (2013 S1): 40.4 FFB (Max. 8.42 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Texas (2013 S1): 31.4 FFB (Max. 10.83 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Class C Silverado - average of listed tracks: 30.0 FFB (Max. 11.33 Nm)
----- Chicagoland (2013 S1): 30.2 FFB (Max. 11.26 Nm) (Larry Teague)
----- Michigan (2013 S1): 30.2 FFB (Max. 11.26 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- Rockingham (2013 S1): 30.0 FFB (Max. 11.33 Nm) (Larry Teague)
Class D Late Model - Monte Carlo - average of listed tracks: 29.2 FFB (Max. 11.64 Nm)
----- Iowa (2013 S1): 26.2 FFB (Max. 12.98 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- Phoenix (2013 S1): 33.0 FFB (Max. 10.30 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
Class D National Impala - average of listed tracks: 31.8 FFB (Max. 10.69 Nm)
----- Langley (2013 S1): 31.6 FFB (Max. 10.76 Nm) (Jonathan Miller)
----- New Smyrna (2013 S1): 32.0 FFB (Max. 10.63 Nm) (Jonathan Miller)
Legends - average of listed tracks: 15.0 FFB (Max. 22.67 Nm)
----- Lime Rock Park (2013 S1): 15.0 FFB (Max. 22.67 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
SK Modified - NEED
Silver Crown - NEED
Sprint Car - average of listed tracks: 27.6 FFB (Max 12.32 Nm)
----- Irwindale (7:1 steering) (2013 S1): 25.8 FFB (Max. 13.18 Nm) (Fred Lampela)
----- Oxford (7:1 steering) (2013 S1): 29.0 FFB (Max. 11.72 Nm) (Fred Lampela)
----- Richmond (7:1 steering) (2013 S1): 25.8 FFB (Max. 13.18 Nm) (Fred Lampela)
----- Richmond (8:1 steering) (2013 S1): 30.2 FFB (Max. 11.26 Nm) (Fred Lampela)
Street Stock - average of listed tracks: 41.4 FFB (Max. 8.21 Nm)
----- Charlotte (2013 S1): 32.2 FFB (Max. 10.56 Nm) (Stephen Westrip)
----- USA International (2013 S1): 57.6 FFB (Max. 5.90 Nm) (Jonathan Miller)
Tour Modified - NEED

Finding your optimal FFB setting with Atlas

*Note: What about Motec?  Well, I cannot see a way to display a *cumulative* histogram in Motec.  This makes it harder to see exactly the same kind of data, and thus harder to figure out the same answer.  If there is a way to display a cumulative histogram in Motec, please let me know.  The regular histogram that you can display in Motec looks at the data in a different way, and isn't anywhere near as helpful for this particular problem.  So unless I find a way to show a cumulative histogram in Motec, you're better off taking two minutes to install Atlas.

David Tucker has a quickstart guide for getting up and running with Atlas here.  There's not much to it, really.  Once you've got that installed you will also need these two files to get started with the FFB stuff.

Atlas function
http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/downloadAttach/1318439.page

Atlas workbook
http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/downloadAttach/1318440.page

Put the "%F_aWheelTorque" function file in this folder: Documents\McLaren Electronic Systems\ATLAS 9\Funclib

Put the "wheel_force.wbk" workbook file in this folder: Documents\McLaren Electronic Systems\ATLAS 9\Workbooks

Once that's done, run Atlas and then click the yellow Open Workbook icon and select the wheel_force.wbk file.

Atlas-open%20workbook.png

Once the workbook opens you will need to load a telemetry file to look at.  Record some laps at a track and once you feel you have a clean one or two then go open it up with this workbook loaded and you will be able to determine some things to do with FFB.  Click the blue folder icon to load a session.

Atlas-open%20session.png

I believe Atlas defaults to showing you the fastest lap, but sometimes it doesn't get that part right.  I'm not sure why, but perhaps it has something to do with a telemetry file containing a car reset.  I'm just guessing.  At any rate, sometimes it doesn't select a 'real' lap as the fastest lap, so the default view may be of no use to you.  Bring down this menu and select the actual lap that interests you.

Atlas-select%20lap.png

Once you do that you'll have some data you can look over.  Here is the app's view with some data showing for Phillip Island in the Williams.  (Click for full size.)

Atlas-FFB%20workbook.png

The graph in the middle is probably the most important one to look at first.  It contains a cumulative histogram of steering wheel torque at the steering wheel shaft in Nm.  In this case, you can see that 98.09% of all forces during the lap are at or below the 16.5 Nm mark.  The 98% mark seems to be a good one to choose as a cutoff point in order to help ignore things like very rapid transient forces that we probably would never feel or care about anyway, such as banging over a curb.  So in this case, 16.5 Nm is likely the most force we will care about, and we will use this to determine our optimal FFB setting in the sim.

David Tucker has shared with us that the equation (0.95*340) / desired force in Nm will give us the FFB setting to use in the sim.  We use 0.95 so that we have a 5% headroom, just to account for some variation in force strength during different laps.  And 340 is what he called a 'magic number' that maps a force in Nm to 100% in the sim.  In the case of the data seen in the graph above we would then punch 16.5 into the equation: (0.95*340) / 16.5 = 19.575757...

So in that case we would want to use a FFB setting of 19.6 in the sim.  This would put most of our forces seen during normal laps fairly close to, but within the 100% range available to us.  That would give us a very large and detailed range of forces to feel through the wheel.  If you do a little reverse calculation of 340 / 19.6 you see that this setting will allow the sim to map about 17.35 Nm of force to the 100% motor strength mark of the wheel.  That will give us a little bit of wiggle room over the 16.5 Nm that we desired to get, and should end up feeling very good.

If you look at the line graph at the bottom you can see from moment to moment where the current steering wheel torque output lies, and compare it to the maximum you've chosen to have played back through the wheel.  You can even use the timeline at the top of the window and drag over a section to zoom in on, and take a look in greater detail at some sections to see if you're still happy with the value you've chosen.  I think you'll end up very happy with what you feel if you choose based on the 98% cutoff point.  Choosing something higher, say 99%, will result in technically preserving more detail.  Just remember that the higher you go, the more those really quick transients will be what you're keeping.  Those aren't likely to matter very much to what kind of useful information you'll be getting from the car, though, and shouldn't be considered too much when deciding how much to keep.  Somewhere between 98% and 99% should more than suffice.  Don't forget, the more of those momentary transients you decide to keep, the less detail you'll feel in the rest of the range, due to the limited number of different strengths the wheel can play back.

According to the graphs David Tucker has posted elsewhere, I believe in the Wheel Check thread, some wheels have a good deal less strength steps to use to play back forces.  I believe my Fanatec GT3v2 only has 128 different strength levels that it plays back, though I'm not sure if this is something that can be or has been changed with firmware updates.  Other wheels have different amounts.  I believe the Logitech wheels appear to have a mere 64 levels!  So with so few different force levels that we can actually feel, it is important to retain as much detail as possible in the range that is more important to us, so that we can better feel changes coming from the car.

To be continued...

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Do you have a link to these settings for the CSW or where I can find "Clayton" ?  I'd like to know the settings mainly for iRacing. I'm currently feeling like some effects are missing fromt he force feedback compared to Thrustmaster and Logitech wheels. 

 

Forgot to mention,   according to that thread the Logitech wheels have 64 force levels and the Fanatec wheels have 128 force levels.

 

Not sure about the T500.

 

Seems reasonable to me that the Fanatec wheels need higher in game force level settings to take advantage of the increased potential range.

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We've finished filming the pedal review and are still working on the wheel. Pedal review will go to post production today for editing.

 

Shaun has been driving with the wheel the last few weeks. Next I will take it over for a bit to see what I think as well. 

great review on the CSW and RIMS. I agree with you a manual by fanatec is a must have and the biggest con i seen in your review.

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Yep, great show and fair review. I loved that you two dared to compare the CSW to the "holy cow" T500RS.

How's the communication with Mr. T going, will you review (or at least mention) the upcomming Fanatec hardware? The new Clubsport shifter and the upcomming wheelrims for the CSW surely are worth to be checked out. I think this community (at least the european part) might be interested in the CSL budget simrig, too...

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Yep, great show and fair review. I loved that you two dared to compare the CSW to the "holy cow" T500RS.

How's the communication with Mr. T going, will you review (or at least mention) the upcomming Fanatec hardware? The new Clubsport shifter and the upcomming wheelrims for the CSW surely are worth to be checked out. I think this community (at least the european part) might be interested in the CSL budget simrig, too...

did I miss something here, tell me more or just point me in the right direction of these new rims derkaffeemann

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ptux73> It's nothing official, yet. But you can see a new Porsche labeled rim for the CSW in this video ->

. It's blurred out most of the time but seems to be a 911Gt3 wheel like that -> http://f-wheel.com/submitted-csw-rims/587. Its appearance lead to a little discussion in this topic on 911wheel.de -> http://www.911wheel.de/?q=node/9737#comments and I think theres some insider info if you read between the lines. So I'm pretty confident that there'll be at least one new rim, soon...

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i read in a forum from a well informed source, that this Porsche rim was only produced for PR and will not enter the mass market.

 

That's my understanding too, pretty sure we know the same guy from the same forum tho. :lol:

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Ok, thats possible for sure, from my side it's only rumors... Just guess they had all the machinery set up and runnuning for a PR wheel, why shouldn't Fanatec run some more batches? So hopefully your snitch is wrong and I'll see a new rim in my collection, soon. =)

Even if this rim is (and will stay) a PR prototype, I'm sure there'll be new rims for the CSW. Everything else would be a big letdown...

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The Porsche rim was actually just a slightly modified BMW rim.So no entirely new product.

 

However, Fanatec said, that they make more rims for sure. As always with Fanatec it is just a matter of time I guess.

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I read something about a larger, NASCAR style rim, but that's it...  honestly I gotta assume Fanatec is in panic mode with the possibility of losing 2/3 of their compatibility tho, plus don't they still need to get that shifter out?

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Hi, does anyone know of any 3rd party software perhaps that can be used to create an FFB base offset so that it can be used in any sim?

 

If you have any knowledge of such softwares....please, please, please let me know! It would be extreeeeeemely appreciated!

 

Many Thanks!

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