SIMUL8R Mark II PVC plans - bottom of pg #7, donations accepted 53 53

[simul8r 114]

Hello, my name is David. I am

based in Sydney Australia and a friend of mine referred me to this site and the

PVC frame

 

I have been building home built

motion simulators for the last 3 years, using 12v motors and robot control boards http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1393

boards and the software from www.x-sim.de

 

Welcome David, glad the plans helped you and thanks for sharing details of your build.  Appears the rig is holding up to your motion system surprisingly well despite the fact it was screwed together.  I would dare ask - does the rig creek during use?  If so then glue would have been a better route if your finding it overwhelmingly noisy.

 

I am more intrigued that you have experience building  motion systems.  I too, would like to add some actuators and the like but I would be guessing as to what I should look for or for that matter combine things together and have it actually work.  May I tap on your knowledge for this?

[simul8r 114]

BTW on a separate topic is anyone else finding it hard to post here, Most of the time a post just continually says "saving" but never actually posts to the thread???

Obviously editing &/or quoting a post works OK though...

 

Looking forward to see what you come up with Flinty,  hope your friend finds the builds worthwhile as well.

 

And yes, there have been some odd anomalies in posting on my end too for some reason.  I can't post up a youtube video properly now even though I've posted another one previously the exact same way.  Very odd.

[simul8r 114]

Ah I have gone with PN12 as I thought the PN9 was a touch to thin & flexy.

When compared to the measurements of schedule 40 pipe from simul8r I thought PN12 would be the closer match, also PN18 was another 1/3 extra cost of the PN12.

 

For the Aussie folk here, from my research the wall thickness differences of PN9, PN12 & PN18 PVC pipe is;

PN9 = 2.60 +/- 0.2 mm

PN12 = 3.35 +/- 0.25 mm

PN18 = 4.95 +/- 0.35 mm

 

Appears PN18 might be Schedule #80 here in the US.  Used primarily for high voltage electrical insulation from where I found them in my local hardware store. Very durable, has some weight to the pipe and should do extremely well for the build.  Only problem here is that they didn't have the fittings in Schedule #80 but only in #40.

[Dukester 2]

Appears PN18 might be Schedule #80 here in the US.  Used primarily for high voltage electrical insulation from where I found them in my local hardware store. Very durable, has some weight to the pipe and should do extremely well for the build.  Only problem here is that they didn't have the fittings in Schedule #80 but only in #40.

Ah that's very interesting, here in AUS the same fittings will work with all those classes of pipe (PN9, 12 & 18) as the OD of the pipe stays the same, it is just the ID that changes due to the changes in the  wall thickness.

[simul8r 114]

Ah that's very interesting, here in AUS the same fittings will work with all those classes of pipe (PN9, 12 & 18) as the OD of the pipe stays the same, it is just the ID that changes due to the changes in the  wall thickness.

It's same here, the thickness of the Schedule #40 fittings will work with both but it would be nice to have them in Schedule #80 to go with the pipes as well for consistency.

[motiondave 88]

Welcome David, glad the plans helped you and thanks for sharing details of your build.  Appears the rig is holding up to your motion system surprisingly well despite the fact it was screwed together.  I would dare ask - does the rig creek during use?  If so then glue would have been a better route if your finding it overwhelmingly noisy.

 

I am more intrigued that you have experience building  motion systems.  I too, would like to add some actuators and the like but I would be guessing as to what I should look for or for that matter combine things together and have it actually work.  May I tap on your knowledge for this?

Hello, the frame only creaks where the piece of mdf is bolted to the frame for the actuator to bolt onto, and for some reason, only on the right hand side. Dunno about this, a bit of grease between wood and plastic should overcome this. But otherwise, very little flex of which I was surprised of. The PN18 is very sturdy , even if it is only screwed together.

The actuators are noisy anyway and louder than any creak, however, I wear headphones, so most of the noise is drowned out.

Best look into this thread about the actuators http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4553&p=43279&hilit=#43279

They were a by chance given to me and VERY expensive.

You could go SCN6 , but even that is costly.

I have another frame, steel with big 12v 200w worm gear motors, granted a different design, but the motion is similar, and more fluid. Just as fast as actuators and motors are cheaper, like $100 each. And quiet.

Control for DC motors, http://www.pololu.com/catalog/product/1393 one each per motor.

refer to this http://www.x-simulator.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=3822&p=43288&hilit=#43288

I will help how I can, just email me at [email protected] and ask .

Have a look through www.x-simulator.de as there is a wealth of information there regarding DIY motion sims.

With yours it would be am matter of finding the balance point, mounting it on a pivot, like a cut down drive shaft uni joint, motors placed about 500-600mm towards the front and connecting up, a car battery and charger for power via the control boards, use the software currently available, or wait for the new software from www.x-simulator.de , and you are moving! Probably for about $600 ish. And the motion is sharper than much more expensive commercial units.

Otherwise drop us a line and we should be able to get you moving in no time!

Cheers, David.

[enderw88 0]

For my first offical post to this forum, I present a Sketchup model of Simul8rs nice design.  For those of you who don't know, Sketchup is a free 3-D modeling application that is very easy to use for structures like this.  The model is color coded to show you where the different length pipes go.  Being a true 3-D model you can rotate it and see features that might be difficult to visualize from Simul8r's drawings.

 

The design is pretty sensitive to insertion distance of the pipes into the fittings.  Based on drawings of generally available fittings, it looks like pipes insert about 1.3-1.4 inches into the fitting.  This model assumes 1 3/8" insertion into the fittings.  The only change from Simul8rs drawing is that the 8.5" verticals are reduced in length to 7.25 inches to keep from having to bend things.  I have not yet built the rig and don't know how accurate this insertion distance is. If someone can tell me a better figure to use I can update the model accordingly.

 

Here are two 2-D grabs from the model, 

 

Cheers,

Craig

 

[motiondave 88]

nice job!

[simul8r 114]

Otherwise drop us a line and we should be able to get you moving in no time!

Cheers, David.

 

Thanks David, I just may do that when the time comes.  My motion idea may be quite different from yours but I'm hoping with your help you will point me in the right direction.  Appreciate it.

[simul8r 114]

The design is pretty sensitive to insertion distance of the pipes into the fittings.  Based on drawings of generally available fittings, it looks like pipes insert about 1.3-1.4 inches into the fitting.  This model assumes 1 3/8" insertion into the fittings.  The only change from Simul8rs drawing is that the 8.5" verticals are reduced in length to 7.25 inches to keep from having to bend things.  I have not yet built the rig and don't know how accurate this insertion distance is. If someone can tell me a better figure to use I can update the model accordingly.

 

This is true since all fittings were slightly different, some of which weren't exact replicas to each other, due to how they were molded by different manufacturers I suppose.  Did not realize this till later during the actual build of the Mark II but continued to use them since they were already purchased.  But despite the subtle differences the pieces fit almost perfectly with some mallet finesse.

 

BTW, nice work with Sketchup.  If you can, kindly include this modification into the design.  Since I've migrated to Super FOV with projector from Triple monitors the shifter bar was obstructing the projection screen and had to be lowered.  This actually put the shifter with mount properly positioned by the wheel IMO.  Not to mention shortening the 4 inch pipes down to 3 which I later realized placed the shifter a little to far out to the side from the wheel.  See pictures below.

 

 

 

At this time I'm still working on my rig adding a isolation base to incorporate simvibe.  I'll provide photos of course showing the final build when the time comes.

[enderw88 0]

I have updated the sketchup model.  How does that new keyboard platform attach?

 

Here is an export from the new model:

[simul8r 114]

I have updated the sketchup model.  How does that new keyboard platform attach?

 

Here is an export from the new model:

Simul8r PVC Rig.png

 

Thanks enderw88, looks good.

 

Here's the keyboard mount using a simpson strong tie clamp, some lumber and a small monitor wall mount.

 

[motiondave 88]

good idea, I didnt think of that as I need a "fold" away keyboard mount as well.

[Dukester 2]

Well I've now got all my pipe & fittings, so I'm hoping to start the build this weekend but the weather forecast is pretty foul here so it may get delayed.

However I have some big concerns with using the PVC jointing compound given it sets so quickly.

Other options I am considering is using liquid nails or a derivative but I realise this will not provide as strong a bond as the real PVC jointing cement but may allow for longer setting times & disconnection of joints, if required later.

 

So I am keen to hear from ppl here to see what they have used to join their rigs & has it stood the test once in use?

[Alvin Nieves 2]

Well I've now got all my pipe & fittings, so I'm hoping to start the build this weekend but the weather forecast is pretty foul here so it may get delayed.

However I have some big concerns with using the PVC jointing compound given it sets so quickly.

Other options I am considering is using liquid nails or a derivative but I realise this will not provide as strong a bond as the real PVC jointing cement but may allow for longer setting times & disconnection of joints, if required later.

So I am keen to hear from ppl here to see what they have used to join their rigs & has it stood the test once in use?

Screws work very nice on all the joints. Make sure to put at least two screws perpendicular to each other on the joints, mainly on the portion that will hold the wheel and pedals.

[simul8r 114]

Well I've now got all my pipe & fittings, so I'm hoping to start the build this weekend but the weather forecast is pretty foul here so it may get delayed.

However I have some big concerns with using the PVC jointing compound given it sets so quickly.

Other options I am considering is using liquid nails or a derivative but I realise this will not provide as strong a bond as the real PVC jointing cement but may allow for longer setting times & disconnection of joints, if required later.

 

So I am keen to hear from ppl here to see what they have used to join their rigs & has it stood the test once in use?

 

Not sure what you have in your country but look for adhesive that will work with plastic with curing time of at least 15 to 30 minutes.  I'm gathering these pipes and fittings are not easy to come by in your area and I'd hate to hear that mistakes were not caught in time based on glue used.  Trust me, it has happened to me and I had to rebuild a quarter of the front section when I was building the first Mark I.  Fortunately, my local hardware store was close by and stocked what I needed and most especially affordable.  If you find the build longer than expected due to cure time you can always set a self tapping screw in place after gluing a section so that pieces don't move while joining the next.  My best suggestion is to take your time, do a mock up of the puzzle and always double check your work prior to gluing because for some reason studying it on paper seems easy but actually joining the pieces by hand tends to lead to mistakes.  Good luck.

[simul8r 114]

Screws work very nice on all the joints. Make sure to put at least two screws perpendicular to each other on the joints, mainly on the portion that will hold the wheel and pedals.

 

I should add, the entire rig does not have to be glued but only sections, thereafter screwing these sections together can also be done.  Just have to figure out what sections to glue though.  Helps with storing or relocating if need be.

[motiondave 88]

Well I've now got all my pipe & fittings, so I'm hoping to start the build this weekend but the weather forecast is pretty foul here so it may get delayed.

However I have some big concerns with using the PVC jointing compound given it sets so quickly.

Other options I am considering is using liquid nails or a derivative but I realise this will not provide as strong a bond as the real PVC jointing cement but may allow for longer setting times & disconnection of joints, if required later.

 

So I am keen to hear from ppl here to see what they have used to join their rigs & has it stood the test once in use?

Mine doesn't creak or flex or crack, I used 3-4 screws per join and no problem what so ever, and I am using PN18 on a motion simulator.

if this doesn't flex under motion, a static sim should be more than fine.

Thats only my 2.3 cents worth.

[Dukester 2]

Thanks heaps for the replies. Yes I will be test fitting everything & will probably use it a few times before finally joining it.

As for joining I was actually going to glue it but I think you have convinced me to screw it together.

Like it has been pointed out it will allow for flexibility, being able to get the build right & then the ability to dismantle later on for easier storage & allow for future modifications. Which I'm sure will happen.

[Alvin Nieves 2]

Thanks heaps for the replies. Yes I will be test fitting everything & will probably use it a few times before finally joining it.

As for joining I was actually going to glue it but I think you have convinced me to screw it together.

Like it has been pointed out it will allow for flexibility, being able to get the build right & then the ability to dismantle later on for easier storage & allow for future modifications. Which I'm sure will happen.

 

It does help for future expansion or modifications. That is what I did and helped me indeed throughout my experience.

 

I should add, the entire rig does not have to be glued but only sections, thereafter screwing these sections together can also be done.  Just have to figure out what sections to glue though.  Helps with storing or relocating if need be.

 

Maybe the whole bottom part up to the 45 degree elbows could be just fitted without any need to join with any other stuff. Any thing that goes up after that I would say glue or screw. The lateral movements that are created by regular use will separate the pipes.

[simul8r 114]

Maybe the whole bottom part up to the 45 degree elbows could be just fitted without any need to join with any other stuff. Any thing that goes up after that I would say glue or screw. The lateral movements that are created by regular use will separate the pipes.

 

Well, this is my rig in sections back in page 9.

 

[Dukester 2]

So what is the recommended type & amount of screws per join?

 

I was thinking 2 screws at 180' but thinking about it more maybe 4 screws at 90' intervals around the tube at each join would be more solid in all directions of potential movement.

Although having them on the bottom of the rig sitting on the ground might not be the best idea.

[simul8r 114]

3 in a 'Y' config.

 

[Dukester 2]

Ah yes, great idea thanks simul8r.

[Alvin Nieves 2]

3 in a 'Y' config.

 

3 screws.png

 

I used 2 at 90 degrees and has held the rig pretty good. The Y config should basically reinforce the whole rig. Should be a good idea for a high strength FFB wheel like the one that Leo Bodnar has.