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Inside SIM Racing?!?!? Hello!

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You guys are becoming a huge contradiction of your shows title. Lately it's all console games and accessories that cater to them. If I hear another GT5 or NFSpeed Shift, forza report I'm gonna puke. Your show should be called Inside Console games and an occasional Sim. Look at your top 50 Sim cars Only one console car. Look at what you subscribers are MOST anticipating IN YOUR OWN POLL, RFACTOR2 by a landslide. Wake up! Recently the best rfactor GT mod I've seen to date (Enuracers Endurance Series SP1) was released and not even a peep from you guys. It is w/o question the best rFactor GT mod hands down. So complete in it's setup and tuning. It offers a spot on Real Feel baseline adjustment(which I haven't changed) and also a excellent G27 parameter setup. Anyone who follows these instruction would have a great appreciation for the level of detail preperation as well as consideration these guys put into this mod...well, maybe not you experts. With so many half done mods out there this one is in a class of it's own and Enduracers deserve great acknowlegment for their efforts. Most of the cars in this mod are miles better than atleast 10 of your top 50. All i'm saying is turn the console of every now and then and stop trying to target just one audience and realize why your show has SIM in it's title and why your subscribers subscribed in the first place. :D

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You guys are becoming a huge contradiction of your shows title. Lately it's all console games and accessories that cater to them. If I hear another GT5 or NFSpeed Shift, forza report I'm gonna puke. Your show should be called Inside Console games and an occasional Sim. Look at your top 50 Sim cars Only one console car. Look at what you subscribers are MOST anticipating IN YOUR OWN POLL, RFACTOR2 by a landslide. Wake up! Recently the best rfactor GT mod I've seen to date (Enuracers Endurance Series SP1) was released and not even a peep from you guys. It is w/o question the best rFactor GT mod hands down. So complete in it's setup and tuning. It offers a spot on Real Feel baseline adjustment(which I haven't changed) and also a excellent G27 parameter setup. Anyone who follows these instruction would have a great appreciation for the level of detail preperation as well as consideration these guys put into this mod...well, maybe not you experts. With so many half done mods out there this one is in a class of it's own and Enduracers deserve great acknowlegment for their efforts. Most of the cars in this mod are miles better than atleast 10 of your top 50. All i'm saying is turn the console of every now and then and stop trying to target just one audience and realize why your show has SIM in it's title and why your subscribers subscribed in the first place. :D

I have to agree sadly. I watched the old shows which got me into this and now it is a little different then it used to be. Not only that the shows are few and far between now and lacking any "real" info like the mod you mentioned. Unfortunately I believe that many people from the sim racing community are starting to go the way of " get the larger not so hardcore market ". I know why they are doing this, it's because they are all afraid that sim racing on a whole is deflating and won't be around much longer. I believe that actions have been taken prematurely and THAT is what is causing the community to shrink. The hardcore guys are getting fed up with not just "console" stuff but the mid way between arcade and sim stuff all together. I don't aim this at the SRT crew but more so at the attitude of the business side of our sport as a whole. I have always said that I would rather have a small tight community of hardcore players rather then a mass amount of weekend warriors. Everyone is different I know and again this IS NOT A BASH on any of the guys or gals at the show, I just miss when you guys were all sim racing like when I found you.

/rant

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I think this is due to ISR success. Now that they make a real impact on software and hardware sales they can't ignore these companies and games which supports them.

Let's face it, GT5 has sold a ton of wheels more than any PC sim ever has. Both Logitech and Fanatec is having trouble keeping up with the high demand of wheels caused by GT5. Fanatec supports ISR then ISR supports Fanatec by focusing heavily on games like GT5 which is in turn selling their wheels.

I agree though I'm like ISR better before when they focus more of PC sims. Still I like to think ISR success has made some impact on these console games like Shift2 and NTG 2011 to make them lean some toward more hardcore sim. At least ISR reminds them of that there are those who is serious about wheel support. NFS:HP wheel support was awful.

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I have to agree on so many points brought up.

When I first started watching SRT (Sim Racing Tonight) Jessica wasn't on the show yet, it was all about sim racing, pure and simple. League results, lessons in how to set up cars (tech tips), other lessons like racing etiquette and so on. The funny part is.... at that time, I was mostly a console racer and mostly racing games (Older NSF, Grid, TDU and so on), I watched Darin and Shawn in amazement not realizing that SIM racing had come such a long way in it's development and the show is what slowly started steering me towards SIM racing to the point of joining iRacing.

I do agree with showing some of the console titles out there and reviewing, since many of us did come from the console games and just wanted more, this is a good thing since it opens up real SIM racing to a wider audience, some will become hard core SIM racers, some not. I don't agree with spending so much time on these console titles, as mentioned in previous messages, I'm sooooo sick of hearing about GT5 and Forza3, it's been a while since we heard anything about Rfactor and what's happening there, what's happening with rFactor 2, what about the Simbim titles, NetKartPro, the SIMs, not the games. iRacing is getting some coverage but maybe not as much as it should, some lessons about tweaking car settings, or even better yet, what settings do to a car, in example, what settings will make a car loose or tight? something we can all walk away with and be able to say we learned something that we can all use. SRT used to do that at one time.

I like ISRT but I loved SRT.

I still very much believe in the ISRT reviews, I know how much work they put into making those reviews as thorough as possible, the show is still great, maybe just has to visit some of it's roots now and then.

The ISRT crew does a great job, but maybe this is the evolution of the show, they have to follow what the majority of the show's viewing public wants and maybe right now, there are more console users watching the show than real SIM guys?

/rant

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

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One thing about the console game reviews is that it has kept me from wasting money on the console racing games. With all the GT5 hype I bought a PS3 but I returned it with the free GT5 both unopened after reading the various user posts and watching the SRT video and not listening to what SRT said about it but just based on what I saw and try at a friends place. I still have the original release 360 and was really looking forward to Forza3 since I spent a lot of time with Forza and Forza2. Totally bought into the Forza3 hype esp after the SRT review along with the FANATEC Turbo S, now they are both there only for friends to use that are not really into sim racing. I don't even listen anymore but just watch and make up my own mind.

Rem SRT to get ad revenue to keep the show on the net, they must have a large viewer base to bring in more advertisers. So like most other general gaming review sites they have to go where the money is. Advertisers want to sell their stuff and there are a lot more young console gamers then there are the old farts like me and other PC gamers. Really I think most pple here are mature enuf that they can make up their own minds as to what is right for them with out relying on the SRT staff to hand hold them.

I agree tho on them not even looking at the Enduracers Endurance SP1 mod. It's almost like they are saying that there are enuf rFactor already and they don't need to do any more reviews on it. Its like enuf Porches already since they are all 911 based and totally ignoring the new 918 RSR since its just another Porsche.

I use to like the set up vids done with Shaun Cole. Esp when he used his RC car to demo the tech points. Maybe he shld bring out the RC car again to demo settting up cars.

I hope SRT take these criticisms in the spirit they are given.

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I'm a n00b around here, and I came in from the point of view of a someone that just started getting back into gaming a little, and was blown away by how much progress had been made in sim racing. But as I was getting up to speed, I remember folks here (and in the youtube feedback) were asking for more reviews of game titles, and now the ISR crew are delivering. And, IMHO, doing a fine job too.

I don't see why we can't have segments on both sim racing and racing games, as the content becomes available, and as ISR has time to review them. After all, don't most sim racers also play games?

- AD

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well, yeah i want to see more sim stuff. alot of these shows i watch once, and think "wow that looks fun/cool" and then dont give it a second thought after that. but the thing is i like anything on four wheels that goes fast, so i keep watching.

out of all those titles in the vote on the home page, i think i would only buy one, maybe rent another for a weekend, and start a crusade to purge the stupid out of another (lol guess which one :) )

can't wait to hear darin and shaun's responses on this thread. 8-)

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Seriously, I hope the ISR team doesn't even acknowledge this thread. You guys sound like a bunch of whining little girls who didn't get their way. I prefer a more Sim based show myself, but I am not going to cry about the fact that console games are getting a lot of attention right now. There are a lot more console gamers, there are a lot more console games.....the guys at ISR get a lot more requests to include console games than they get to only do Sim/PC games. Afterall, if you are that insulted by what they are doing, you could always find another site, or better yet, start your own.

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Seriously, I hope the ISR team doesn't even acknowledge this thread. You guys sound like a bunch of whining little girls who didn't get their way. I prefer a more Sim based show myself, but I am not going to cry about the fact that console games are getting a lot of attention right now. There are a lot more console gamers, there are a lot more console games.....the guys at ISR get a lot more requests to include console games than they get to only do Sim/PC games. Afterall, if you are that insulted by what they are doing, you could always find another site, or better yet, start your own.

Read your own post. Are you not complaining? Are you insulted by any post on this thread? Consoles have always gotten more attention than PC even in the 80's yet that doesn't mean PC gamers can't have a voice.

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Seems now about this time of year we get these complaints. People see "F1 2010" and don't watch the show..

We didn't cover Endu Racers ?? You guys sure ??

We're not going to review another rFactor mod.. As good as it may be, we're waiting for rF2.

The Top Sim Car list got stale for us and we've taken a break from it.. It'll be back and was actually on that show I posted a link to.

Every full show also has iRacing news which in my opinion is the pinnacle of sim racing.. We'll also be covering more iRacing competitions now that we have the freedom to report on what we want, when we want to.

For us to exist, we have to cover all titles racing related, hard core sim or not.

Whether the hard core guys like it or not, most sim racers come from the consoles.. Tom Haake who works on the show, Marc Payne whom we sponsor as a driver in the iRacing DWC, both came from GT5. My good friend from high school came over here a few months back as a GT5 and DFGT owner.. He's since purchased a PC and is an avid iRacer.

If we'd start over, we'd call the show something like. Inside Motorsports Gaming, or something like that.. Sorry we started with sims, realized there's more to life than hard core sims and started covering more. If we didn't, we wouldn't be around any more to be honest. We were lucky to get 10,000 views on one video when we covered only PC stuff..

Now, we wish you guys would look at that big picture.. We don't expect you to watch the F1 2010 or GT5 stuff.. But, watch the Thrustmaster T500RS review later this month, Yes it's the official GT5 wheel, but it makes for the best PC racing wheel on the market now. Also check out the the perfect pedal mod we just did, plus the rest of the PC racing stuff we get our hands on.

Shaun is going to do some ARC modding to pedals and a wheel, Tommy will be reviewing the new Obutto.. On top of that we have a PS3 wheel buyers guide.. and guess what guys.. all those wheels work on the PC.. Don't you think we want as many people possible migrating to the PC ?? Of course, but it's not as easy as you think.. PC racing takes dedication, console racing can too, but some of you are spoiled by iRacing or rFactor and don't see how affordable and easy it can be to race on the console, and it's getting better every year..

So.. that being said.. If you don't like it, Im sorry, we're not going back to hardcore PC stuff only.. It has a place on our show and we will cover it all, but there's a lot more console stuff to cover.. We've also brought on Tommy as a regualr and which will help us put out more content, which menas track tips, setup guides, etc.

Thats also why we've created the site the way it is.. You don't want console news.. go here..

http://isrtv.com/pages/section/PC-Racing

Hope to see you on the track !

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Not to mention, if you did ONLY pc sim racing there isn't enough content out there to do a weekly show. You can only do so many rFactor mods and iRacing specials. New hardware only comes out a few times a year.

If ISR were to stick only to pc sims, it would get repetitive and could only be a monthly show. Lets face it, the main sims are YEARS old now. It gets old hyping up new releases like rFactor 2 and GTR3 since they *still* don't even have an actual release date. Continuing to discuss that is just an exercise in frustration.

Keep in mind that many sim enthusiasts enjoy racing other than just sims, so getting a perspective of a "relaxing" game from sim enthusiasts is helpful and does make for a good show. ISR does a good job of taking each game (sims are still games btw) on their own merit and discussing them as the game is intended...plus a simmers point of view of it.

I say keep up the good work and keep on having content for weekly shows.

The "I'm more hardcore than the other guy" contest gets old, I appreciate the variety of coverage and down to earth perspective.

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Thank you Darin for the response. After looking at it from your point of view it makes sense. I guess what is being said by some of us is that people like myself, when they find something they like they dive in head first and never look back. I did exactly that and in the course of 11 months went from.. What is a G27? to... iRacing 7 nights a week w/ full rig triple screens, NIXIM mod, C license road and D license oval. I skipped the console part of things as I always act this way when I find something I love. I tend to forget that the world isn't all like me and I need to be more open. I should also realize this when people who have never been at the house before come in and see me racing and are like WTF r u doing? Then when I try to tell them and get them excited about it they have a deer in the headlights look.

Now to the infant who sat there a few posts back and said we were acting like little girls... You sir are out of place and are obviously not apart of any kind of serious sim racing community. If you were then you would have more respect for your fellow racers and would RESPECTFULLY disagree with them and explain your point rather then start bashing people you don't know simply because your view is different. Do you have a valid point? That's no longer even a interest of mine since you opened your post with such a moronic statement. Many of us have been here for a long while and other ones like myself are just now getting into what I would call the " no longer noob " status and all of us have lots of respect for each other. Just show some more respect for everyone and the same respect will be given to you and your opinions.

Oh and BTW that is a pretty stupid way to start off your visit to the forums here... Hope you were just trolling and don't plan to stay..

/post

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lilbro that is a dang good post bud. well said indeed. i applaud you sir.

moving on, i want to say something about casual games. that is that i don't find arcade racers to be entertaining. honestly its been a few years since i've played one. sure when i was a kid arcade racing was a blast, but nowadays they don't interest me. granted, they are a great gateway to bring someone into the racing lifestyle, but i;ve seem to have moved on. maybe i'm in the minority here, how bout the rest of you PC same racers? in the same boat as me or no?

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I do little arcade racing now, I pretty much stick to Simbin titles, but some of the most fun I've had racing was in a weekly private room of just friends (all adults after putting the kids to bed) playing Flatout Ultimate Carnage on the 360. The idea isn't so much to win a race as to make sure no one else *finishes* the race. Great way to blow off steam. LOL

A demolition derby in buses on a rooftop always wrapped up the night.

Good times! Never laughed so much in a game, almost blacked out from it more than once. LOL

Video I made of one of our game nights.

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Darin I respect your reaction and hearing you say where your focus has shifted (primarily console)totally validates my perception. I wasn't intending on sounding like you guys dont produce a worhty show. I just wished for more sim content. And simply announcing the Enduracers SP1 mod wasn't quite what I was hoping for. It's cool really. There are other options, but I enjoy your show(the sim related portions) a lot. iRacing has it's own show and maybe when rFactor2 is released you guys will get back to your sim roots a bit more. Like I said I look forward to seeing more sim stuff. Maybe every 4th or 5th show just being Sim base, just a suggestion dude. Take care man and say hi to Jessica and Sean.

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Guest

I respect darin about his opinion, that's why this is called Inside Sim Racing = General Racing Simulator reviews/feedback

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What is classified as a sim is a bit subjective. It's just that anyone can have an opinion on what is a sim and what isn't, and therefore it's not ever going to "live up to it's title" in some people's eyes. I think the important things about ISR is this and I don't agree that the community is getting smaller. It's grown by leaps and bounds since ISR has been around. (even for us hardcore sim racers)

The Important aspect is that people that are watching the show from all different forms of racing sims or games or whatever you want to call them, Can actually get to see what other options are out there. I know before ISR was around the whole console vs pc and other titles in the middle caused a very fragmented community. I've been around this community for 15 years. I've seen it grow. I don't see why these community's can't co-exist with each other, and infact it's good for both community's. That's why I love this show, because I do see the difference it has made over the last few years.

I think part of the problem is that we had or have had at least from the sim-racers (hardcore types) like myself over the years have pretty much scared away many people because we have this attitude about what we do is better than what you do, so whatever is the next best sim or mod or whatever is the new flavor of the month or year or whatever. If your not doing that you're not hardcore or what have you. The Crazy part of this is we actually did this to our own community!

I know some don't mind the smaller community but you don't grow a community by having that kind of attitude, and I'm just as guilty of it as the next guy in the past. There is so many people out there that don't even know about some sims or how big this community really is, and they would probably never find out if it wasn't for places like ISR or other forms of media outlets for simracing. I don't see how any bad can come from that. It's all good in my opinion the more people to race with the better in my opinion. :)

It's like there is a lot of bad blood between some Rfactor racers and iRacing racers. For I don't know what reason or how it all got started but it's exactly what I'm talking about. Both are sims, and Both are good for they're own reasons.

That doesn't mean that ISR won't cover something that might not personally interest me. Sure that is almost for sure that will happen. But it's not about me or 1 single person. It's quite impossible to please everyone lol. :)

The one simple and I know I drag this on, but the 1 simple reason I love this show is finally the community is growing and co-existing. It's taken 10 years but it's finally happening! It's a small step, but at least for me a small step in the right direction. If that's not progress I don't know what is :)

I didn't even cover anything about the impact this would have on future products for us. Better sim's more competition in terms of developers creating more advanced sim's. It';s a snowball effect. If the community is marketable it'll benefit everyone. If it's a dead market we go back to what we had before which is a smaller community with only really rich deep pocket companies spending money on a industry they know isn't profitable. If that's what people want to go back to.. eeek. :)

Shawn

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Very well put Shawn.

I like ISRT, I've been watching it for a couple years and learning as much as I can and I totally agree with you, ISRT does steer people into sim racing, I'm a prime example, due to ISRT, I've purchased many things that have made it on the show (Obutto, Eyefinity setup, ButtKicker Gamer II, Fanatec GT2 CS edition on the way, and so on not to mention too many software titles to list).

What I think I miss the most is some of the feature tutorials that used to be aired, when Shawn Cole would take out his RC car and show what camber is and so on, not all of us are automotive engineers so seeing stuff like that is a great learning tool and also interesting. Also, I miss the challenges Darin and Shawn did regarding rFactor mod challenges, the "Beat our times" on downloadable tracks and cars, I'd be willing to bet many people took up this challenge just for the heck of it and never posted results, I know I did and it may have made me a better driver for it, without these challenges, I never would have downloaded Eastern Creek or the Legends mod to run on it.

I know so well how much time is required in making a show of this caliber of quality and content, I know that popular stuff has to be covered 1st, doesn't mean I don't miss some of the features ISRT did in the past however.

No matter how much I might miss SRT of the past, I still watch ISR of the present and future religiously and enjoy it very much.

Also, many thanks go to you for all the extreme hard work you've been putting into ISR's website, it's looking fantastic and a true enhancement to the show.

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

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Yeah Jack, Those were some good episodes for sure. :)

I'd certainly like to see more stuff like that too. I think it's good feedback for sure. I think part of the problem is there is only so much to cover in terms of technical details. I'd certainly wouldn't mind helping on somethings like this, and mental approach of sim-racing because that's something I analyze greatly, It's actually pretty amazing how much mental approach can effect lap times, and have a lot of experience with that. Except I'm not anyone near California lol. I'm up in Canada also. :)

Thanks for the props on the website. It's an on going process, but glad people are liking it. :)

Shawn

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Hi Shawn.

Agreed on the mental state of mind. I've experienced that on iRacing, one day I can drive well, the next, I can't drive to save my life. LOL

I don't think I'll ever be a good sim racer, I'm not bad but not good either, just average I guess, I don't have the coordination to do the heel toe thing which puts me at a serious disadvantage, also, I just purchased the mustang (with $30 credits from one year sign up) and haven't the slightest idea how to set up that car so it would feel decent for me, I have downloaded someone else's set up which helped a bit. But I don't know how to change settings for a car that will help make the car more driveable for me. I call the Mustang a "Lead brick on grease" LOL.

I still race the MX5 mostly in the Nvidia cup, I'm not willing to spend the kind of money iRacing wants to buy extra content since I'm not sure if I like iRacing enough to stick with it once my year membership is done (too expensive).

Actually, both these topics would make for a great ISR show..... your idea of the mental side of racing and my idea of what settings would help tame a "Lead brick on grease" for guys like me! LOL.

Thank you for your input, I've been sim racing (more seriously) for about 2 years now, I've always played driving games before but with a joystick. I appreciate hearing the point of view from experienced sim racers such as yourself and others.

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

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Man... watching the rFactor mod reviews were starting to get embarrassing for me... I know sim racing isn't about graphics, but 1st impressions last. People (New comers) will just take one look at them and won't even take the talk about physics seriously, It was getting a bit stale IMO. It's also slightly heart breaking to see the amount of subscribers ISR has compared to some of the one-man-bands that commentate over a game of call of duty.

It's by covering the GT5's and such that will attract new sub's, those subs will go back through the back catalogue of ISR shows and maybe some thing will take their interest, stay subbed and see the latest in what the gaming motorsports software and hardware has to offer in the future.

I think things will get interesting once GTR3 and rF2 hit :D Then there will be something to show off.

One thing that does get to me is the elitism in the sim racing community, that some somehow the next guy is a lesser person because they play console racers, even though they all share the same passion..... motor vehicles and pixel versions at that. It's just as fierce from sim-to-sim. The bickering looks really bad. It's almost on par with the console wars :lol:

Check the video description, if you don't like it don't watch it. I manage it with Justin Beiber content.

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One thing that does get to me is the elitism in the sim racing community, that some somehow the next guy is a lesser person because they play console racers, even though they all share the same passion..... motor vehicles and pixel versions at that. It's just as fierce from sim-to-sim. The bickering looks really bad. It's almost on par with the console wars :lol:

Like cruiser riders vs. sport bike riders. We all love to ride.

keep doing what you're doing ISR. Just do it more often :mrgreen:

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What I think I miss the most is some of the feature tutorials that used to be aired, when Shawn Cole would take out his RC car and show what camber is and so on, not all of us are automotive engineers so seeing stuff like that is a great learning tool and also interesting. Also, I miss the challenges Darin and Shawn did regarding rFactor mod challenges, the "Beat our times" on downloadable tracks and cars, I'd be willing to bet many people took up this challenge just for the heck of it and never posted results, I know I did and it may have made me a better driver for it, without these challenges, I never would have downloaded Eastern Creek or the Legends mod to run on it.

I know so well how much time is required in making a show of this caliber of quality and content, I know that popular stuff has to be covered 1st, doesn't mean I don't miss some of the features ISRT did in the past however.

No matter how much I might miss SRT of the past, I still watch ISR of the present and future religiously and enjoy it very much.

Also, many thanks go to you for all the extreme hard work you've been putting into ISR's website, it's looking fantastic and a true enhancement to the show.

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack

Jack the old ISR, or the segments that you miss, will be back very soon. We were taking a break from some things to re-group. We also landed a new sponsor that I can announce right here.. Tamiya ! http://www.tamiyausa.com/

Remember the tech tip with the RC car ?? There will be more of those, and the hot lap contests where we may give away an RC car. No promises, but there have been talks..

We want to get more PC sim stuff now that we are bringing in a lot more sim racers.. Shawn Purdy, thanks so much for the detailed post and it really summed it up for us.

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Thank you for the reply Darin, I had a HUGE smile when I read it.

HAHAHA, man, Tamiya? I remember this name, I used to race 10th scale off road cars (JRXT turned into a car, sold it, and had two Associated RC-10's, one on a graphite chassis and the other in the aluminum pan, I loved that old aluminum pan, graphite was too stiff and made the car too twichy).

This is great news Darin, I do enjoy all ISR shows, but am very much looking forward to some of the stuff you guys used to do (car setups and such) and those rFactor monthly challenges were fun, and at the same time a learning tool since it forced me to try cars and tracks I never even knew existed let alone would ever try then taking those same cars and tracks and seeing how fast I could go around the track, learning new lines and so on. As stated in another message thread "You guys Rock" :)

As for Shawn's idea as to the mental aspect of sim racing, would it be possible for Shawn to make his own video clip and send it to be included in a show or maybe even a video or even audio teleconference between ISR and Shawn.

I would very much like to hear what he has to say since I would like to see how much of it I can relate to and what I can maybe learn from what I can't relate to. I think this would be a excellent piece if Shawn is willing to spend the time of course.

Again, thank you very much for the great news, I am seriously happy...... I know, I know.... I need to get a life! LOL :shock:

Take care

Regards: >>>> Jack <<<<

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As far as rFactor content goes, most likely not.. Competitions will most likely take place in iRacing, Netkar Pro for now until rF2 and GTR3 come out.. Maybe throw in some Richard Burns Rally as well and some console stuff.

The tuning stuff will be coming for sure with Shaun and some new RC cars.

Shawn Purdy on the show. We'd love it and actually want him to move to California to join the team full time but he won't do it ;)

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