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My honest thoughts on Forza as a Sim. What are yours?

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Just to be clear, I am not starting this thread to bash on Forza or Turn 10. Turn 10 is a great game developer and Forza 6 as well as their previous installments are very well developed and deep games with Forza 6 having so much content out of the box that it's almost silly. I always buy every title they make and always enjoy the countless hours I spend customizing, changing drivetrains, swapping engines and painting cars until my thumbs hurt. Where my fun stops is after I take those cars out on the track....

 

So I'm interested in what everyone's views are that have had a good amount of seat time on this now that it has been out a few weeks.

 

Here is my opinion:

 

The visuals in this game are astonishing. There is simply no other way to describe it. Graphically it is the best I have ever seen. But I am the type that would rather have a lesser polygon count and more accurate physics. I honestly have many issues with the game but most are tolerable. In my opinion there are three however that really need to be overhauled for it to be even remotely close to being a sim. Obviously these are my views and opinions and I would like to see what everyone else thinks as well.

 

My main gripes with the game are:

 

1: Some aspects of the physics. Mainly Grip.

2. Poor force feed back and lack of adjustments for it

3. Some major setting missing that are a must in a Sim.

 

1. Actually the physics for the most part, most things feel right. Car's body roll as they should and they don't feel like they are on a central pivot point like most arcade games do. But regardless of what type of tire you put on the car or how well you set up the suspension, there is always an unrealistic lack of grip. Even the best race cars feel like you have to fight them through the corners at mild speeds. Also, there is no gradual feeling of loosing traction. Once you hit that "point" the car's rear end flings out like the ground has just turned to ice and they don't slide out gradually like a car naturally does when you loose rear grip in a corner. It just causes this back and forth through most corners of being quickly in and out of grip and flinging back and forth. In a proper sim with any car, at the proper corner entry speed you can smoothly enter, ride and exit the corner with out the tires making a lot of racket and the back end sliding out or the front tires pushing you out on the grass.Now im not talking about overcooking a corner either. I mean at speeds the car should handle. I think that generally across the board all cars in that game should be able to corner a little quicker than what they do without all that fuss. Especially the race cars. I think that in Turn 10s effort in trying to make this very sim like they have purposely made it difficult to corner smoothly. Making cars in a game harder to drive does not make it more like a sim. They need to really balance that end of the physics out.

 

2. I imagine playing the game through a gamepad is fine but when it comes to using a wheel, the ffb is just quite honestly, not very good. There is definitely a feeling of resistance but it is very bland and does not tell you at all what the car is doing except for the occasional times the car steps out and the wheel goes completely light. I might also add that that is the same feeling you receive when you drive through a puddle in the game as well. Now in my experience in real life events, hydroplaning and fishtailing do not net the same results through a steering wheel. It just really leaves something to be desired and when compared to other sims like iRacing, Assetto Corsa, and project cars and there is just no comparison. This would all be fine if this was just a base setting and it could be adjusted to meet your taste but other then a few dead zones and the main ffb dial there isn't any.

 

3. Missing in game adjustments. Now this is my final gripe but this is probably the one that bothers me the most. A true simulation does just what the title suggests. It simulates driving. To be as accurate as possible there are certain adjustments that must exist to put you, the player/driver as close to the real thing as possible. For one, you have to be able to adjust the field of view and seating position in the in car camera. Depending on how far away from your tv/monitor you are, and what size it is, the scenery and road depth change. This causes things to look unnatural in size and sometimes skewed. To combat this a true sim must have a way to change the field of view to get what your looking at back to a proportionate size. In my opinion you will not get the best lap times you can unless the apex's physically look and feel the size they truly would be if you were sitting in a real race car. Once you get FOV set then it is also important to be able to move the seating position so that it doesn't feel like you are either too far back in the car or too close. And yes these are two totally different things. FOV deals with what is outside of the cars windshield and seating position deals with what is inside the car. In a true sim you should be able to adjust both. And for wheel users like myself, why is there no option to turn off the steering wheel and driver arms. Why do they force that. It should be an option. I am holding a steering wheel with two arms that are attached to me. Why do I need another set? If you have a correct FOV, and seating position set then you would see almost immediately that the wheel and arms are not needed. At times it feels as if Turn 10 wants you to buy and play their game, but only if it is on their terms and conditions. There are other settings that should be there but I wont bore you any longer.

 

So no I don't think Forza is an arcade game at all, but I don't think it quite fits into the sim category either. Which actually makes perfect sense since Turn 10 claims if falls into a category that they have dubbed simcade but even still a lot of people claim that it is a true sim and i disagree. That is why I want to here everyone's views on the topic.

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Hi Crazydan, good write, Im a Forza fan since first game came out, I don't own Forza 6 just played the demo, Now I play Iracing on pc, because of wheel compatibilities.

 

I think the same about the psychics of the game and balance from, difficult to drive and just fine, feels strange and not real at driving errors (like you can push way more and the system is forgiving errors) or going 0 to a certain speed just don't feel right. 

 

About the FOV being only one screen for me its ok that is not in the game.

I Think every one think as you, thats why no many replies, not a SIM but not Arcade something in the middle.

 

Not playing Forza just for a run or 2, I miss the fun factor of Forza it is the best in my opinion, I really enjoyed the game.

 

What I wish that I think won't happen, is:

Forza 6 on PC (Imagine the graphics as one demo they had on E3)

Triple screen with FOV adjustments

Simvibe compatibility 

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-About arms showing in cockpit view, perhaps John and Darin should mention it to T10. All that hard work on 450 vehicles is basically being lost with sim racers. It's distracting. I find myself having to use the hood cam. That should be an easy fix.

-I think they can work on the interface a bit. I find myself having to jump in and out of menus. For example. I want to try different cars at Mazda Raceway (Rivals). I start with the Z06 (S spec). Now I want to compare the times to the P1. I have to go back a menu, select R spec, and find Mazda Raceway. It would be easier if you could just pick the track and car and drive; the game should automatically track the spec.

-Leaderboards, times etc. I'm a car enthusiast. Although sim times will naturally be faster than real world (no risk of hitting a wall), the leaderboards mixes all the times. Tuned or not, upgraded or not, it's hard to tell what others are driving. The game even offers to tune the vehicle for you. Tunes make a big difference. Is that best Z06 time at Laguna Seca stock or is it an 800HP tuned version? I can't tell. if Randy Pobst sets a real world record, 1:28:xx time at Laguna with a 918, and I can beat him with an overly tuned 800 HP Z06, does it matter? It's not realistic. Stock(ish) adds a depth of realism and should be prioritized. A completely stock category in which you simply focus on driving is a must. In general, a realistic simulator should yield similar ballpark lap times to actual track records. Beating a real world record by 10 secs takes away from the experience.

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Thanks for the reply Rafael. Yeah I actually race primarily on my PC. I also play iRacing mostly and yeah it is on a triple setup. I tend to forget that FOV adjustments are not as helpful on a single monitor. I have heard a few rumors about Forza 6 coming to PC but there have been no actual facts that I have found through Turn 10 or Microsoft that confirm them so I doubt it will happen. Would be very awesome though!

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I went ahead and bought it even though the demo was not enjoyable.  I'm about 50/50 on whether I am glad that I pulled the trigger.  Graphically it is fantastic.  The selection of cars is impressive.  The tracks aren't bad and some of them are just beautiful.

But the biggest problem I have is that I don't feel like I am driving the car as much as I am trying to manage it if that makes any sense at all.  For the life of me I cannot figure out how to accelerate at any point in a corner where you can usually get to a point where the tires are set and you can power through.  There's just no feel and the lack of grip is appalling.  Now I have been able to adjust to some extent to deal with it, but I know that as soon as I fire up PCARS again I'm probably not going to want to go back which is a shame.  I like being able to muscle the car a bit even if it's at the expense of lap time because it is fun.  You just can't do that with F6 without spending hours upon hours of trying to dial in a setup and even then it's only tolerable.

The cockpit view is horrible as well.  It's like I'm 3' tall and sitting in the backseat or something.

It's not the worst game ever made and has a ton of potential, but I think that the physics simply are just what they are which is made to work with a controller first and foremost.  I know that the game is prettier and runs smoother than PCARS for the most part, but with PCARS the tire model is much more intense which is probably why the graphics suffer a bit.  I don't see T10 being able to get close to that because they just don't put the same importance on that part of the game.

I also noticed that while using the clutch and shifter that there is a massive delay even if I'm trying to get through the gears quickly.  It's really off putting and is a serious problem because the car simply isn't shifting at the right time and I catch myself not in gear in turns more often than not.

The game is just hard and not in a good way.  It's just funky and doesn't feel or respond as well as I would think that it should.

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Well I just spent a pretty long stint playing the game and I have to say that it's kind of grown on me.  Biggest thing was dialing back the FFB and vibrations and once I did that it made a ton of difference in the feel.  Next was just getting off my butt and doing some builds and mild tuning.  Basically focusing on tires and chassis.

I hate to admit it but I had a blast.  I still think that the physics are behind PCARS, but after about 8 hours play time on it I've adjusted pretty well. 

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i started sim racing 5 months ago with iracing. Disapointed there were no street cars but still a blast. A month went by before i picked up assetto corsa. I dont like assetto corsa. asetto sounds like crap. then a month went by after that i got fm6 and i like it alot for hot lapping but some things drive me nuts about this game.

there is no indication another car is beside me. pretty much rules this out as a simracing game as you cant race against someone you dont know is there. its a recipe for disaster. assetto has the red arrrows, iracing has that british guy, both of those support triple screens, but fm6 has nothing.

cockpit view sucks. this driver must have terrible arthritis as he cant keep his hand still for more than 30 seconds. it extremely distracting to the point i have to use hoodcam. also what moron takes his hand off  the steering wheel to hit the paddle shifter? thats a 16yo asian girl move not a racecar driver move.

you cant keep track of your best times on a track except for your fastest lap. i used to love changing setups to see how it affects my time in granturismo back in the day. but forza i guess cant afford the extra storage so im stuck trying to write it down before i crash.

i actually really like this ffb.  assetto seems like your tires are 6 feet wide with its excessive vibrating. iracing is better but not by much. fm6 does exaggerate the hydro planning and rumblestrips to the point it almost yanks the wheel out of my hand.

to sum it up i like fm6 for hotlapping. i mstly play iracing but nothing beats tuning your own car and customizing it.  nothing beats ripping a twinturbo ferrari f50 around the nurburgring or rwd, caged ford feista xr2. i really like the performance rating system for the cars too. 

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I have been playing Forza 6 almost daily since the early release date of September 10 and I cannot get enough of it.  I am using a Thrustmaster TX wheel, with GTE add-on rim and modded T500RS pedals.  As mentioned above, the car selection is amazing, but I also am enthralled by the track selection.  The fantasy tracks are superb, only the GT series has a better selection of such tracks.  The real life tracks look amazing.  The FFB with my TX wheel is sublime, easily the best FFB I have ever felt in a console racing game and comparable to the FFB in PC sims such as iRacing, Assetto Corsa and rFactor 2.  The physics are not as sim-like as the PC sims I mentioned, but they are still excellent.  The career mode does what career modes are supposed to do - give us a reason to keep racing as many cars on as many tracks as possible.  The MP is good fun but I prefer the leagues, since those races tend to be cleaner.  The graphics look superb, again only eclipsed, barely, by the PC sims.  The sounds are great, there is such diversity from car to car and I really feel the surround sound via my Astro TR A40 headset, plus I get tactile feedback via the Buttkicker Gamer 2.

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The missing settings can't be argued. I need custom resolution and Window mode for every game I play. Spanned over a TV in landscape and two monitors in portrait. Also mouse look while in cockpit so I can look around with Trackir or FreeCameraLook. Finally multiple controller support. 

The physics are different. But they are at that stage where some, yes even some professional drivers, will argue they prefer them over other Sims! Please, to whomever it may concern, don't argue my statement like your opinion on physics is gloriously perfect. 

Haven't played it enough to judge the FF. Not sure I even got my G25 properly tuned in with what's available. But FF is certainly good enough to make the game worthy of a run. 

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On 11/6/2015 at 0:46 AM, ashasha said:

I went ahead and bought it even though the demo was not enjoyable.  I'm about 50/50 on whether I am glad that I pulled the trigger.  Graphically it is fantastic.  The selection of cars is impressive.  The tracks aren't bad and some of them are just beautiful.

But the biggest problem I have is that I don't feel like I am driving the car as much as I am trying to manage it if that makes any sense at all.  For the life of me I cannot figure out how to accelerate at any point in a corner where you can usually get to a point where the tires are set and you can power through.  There's just no feel and the lack of grip is appalling.  Now I have been able to adjust to some extent to deal with it, but I know that as soon as I fire up PCARS again I'm probably not going to want to go back which is a shame.  I like being able to muscle the car a bit even if it's at the expense of lap time because it is fun.  You just can't do that with F6 without spending hours upon hours of trying to dial in a setup and even then it's only tolerable.

The cockpit view is horrible as well.  It's like I'm 3' tall and sitting in the backseat or something.

It's not the worst game ever made and has a ton of potential, but I think that the physics simply are just what they are which is made to work with a controller first and foremost.  I know that the game is prettier and runs smoother than PCARS for the most part, but with PCARS the tire model is much more intense which is probably why the graphics suffer a bit.  I don't see T10 being able to get close to that because they just don't put the same importance on that part of the game.

I also noticed that while using the clutch and shifter that there is a massive delay even if I'm trying to get through the gears quickly.  It's really off putting and is a serious problem because the car simply isn't shifting at the right time and I catch myself not in gear in turns more often than not.

The game is just hard and not in a good way.  It's just funky and doesn't feel or respond as well as I would think that it should.

" I am trying to manage it if that makes any sense at all "  Barney Oldfield, "If your not out of control, your not driving fast enough yet!"   I hope you get my 'drift'. 

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