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Episode 92: GT5 Full Review Part 1

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Hi SRT team, just watched your latest show and thought I'd post a couple of comments in reaction to it...

Ok... I thought what you guys said about GT5 and the scores you gave the cars were pretty much spot on, I found myself totally agreeing with what you were saying, except for one thing. You guys can't have done all the licences yet, because if you had you would have been saying a whoooooooole lot more on how bad the AI is!! I don't think you pointed out the poorness of the AI enough, this game has been in development for so long, and the AI is still just drones on rails for the most part. This gets most frustrating and shows itself at its worst during the licences where you get disqualified if you tap them, or just as often at least, when they drive in to you!

Other than that though, I'd just like to add a massive thank you, I thought I was doing something wrong until you mentioned just how sensitive the brake pedal is on the G25/27, I've come to the game tonight with a view to barely touching the pedal (i wasn't exactly stamping on it before) and it has made a big improvement, so thank you again for that! (So big that within a few attempts I comfortably landed a gold on the licence test I was up to where I haven't hit golds during the other tests in the current licence leading up to it :D ).

I would also just like to expand on a tip that Tom provided, in case you guys or anyone here doesn't know it:

When you buy a new car, or when you win a car, make sure to change the oil BEFORE you go racing with it. You don't need to do any of the rebuild stuff in the auto shop, just change the oil for 250 cr or how ever much it costs. You will get a bit of a performance boost, it is often around 15-20 bhp! nice cheap power upgrade right there.

Love the show, especially when you have tips that directly help my mediocre driving improve! :D

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I'm using Nixim brake mod for my G27 pedals and it works as well as CSP. Also If you have ABS off you need to change your brake bias so your brakes will not be as touchy and won't lock up so bad. This works with CSP as well so you don't have to mess with your brake dial on the CSP. Front 5 and Back 5 is too high with ABS off. Depending on the car , I set my brake bias (front:back) 6:2, 4:2, 3:1 and 2:1.

I actually like the feel of g27 brake pedals with nixim mod better than CSP in GT5 as they have a more firmer feel. I've just released My CSP tuning kit so I'll soon mod it's brakes to be more firm as well.

@ Dibz

In case you didn't noticed the AI is both Special events as well as License are scripted so they are in fact driving on rails. Not so in A-spec and B-spec. This will become very obvious in the last event (level 19) in TGTT.

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Well done episode. I am looking forward to part 2.

I think I fall into Darin's category of not caring to having unlock cars and tracks. This may extend the time playing the game but it feels more like work and less than play having to unlock something (imho, ymmv of course).

thanks for reinforcing my experience with the Logitech DFP wheel. I have decided to buy the new Fanatec Porsche GT2 + clubsport pedals next month. I thought about waiting for the release of the :D TTTTTThrustmaster T500RS but I am too eager to get a decent wheel asap. The GT2 fits my needs perfectly for a high quality wheel/pedals that work on the PC, Xbox360, and PS3.

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@ Dibz

In case you didn't noticed the AI is both Special events as well as License are scripted so they are in fact driving on rails. Not so in A-spec and B-spec. This will become very obvious in the last event (level 19) in TGTT.

Yeah they are definitely worse in the specials/licences than in a-spec, I just don't understand why they have done that to such a high degree, it feels very artificial, you don't "use what you have learned" to get to the front, you have to brake late and drive off line for most of the lap to get round the cars and can make sensible passing moves as they just clip you and you get dsq'd.

it just feels like a massive shame as the rest of the game seems very well done up to now.

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This show includes our first look at the full release version of Gran Turismo 5. Tom Haake takes you on a tour of the features, while Darin and Shaun point out the good the bad and the ugly. We also cover what wheel work and what wheels wont. We also have "The Pit Stop" with Jessica Lopez with the latest sim racing news. And to top things off Top Sim Cars will add 2 cars from GT5 to the list.

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I'm surprised you were so kind to GT5, as I sort of expected you guys to blast it. Actually, I love the GT series and I think I would have been rougher on it.

I still don't get the damage in the game. It has no purpose at all.

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First ..great job guys!! I agree with pretty much everything you have to say about GT5..it looks great, the driving is well done but I don't care for the lack of personalization (I mean, having to unlock paint?!) One thing I really like is the license challenges. I think it will really help my driving (and Darin you know my struggles with road courses.) I've gotten the first level license and am working on the next. One question, I didn't pick up which "wheel" you selected for the G27 since that's not an option (although, as you said it works pretty well.)

Again, great job and I look forward to you further material. BTW, I noticed you got iRacing as a sponsor...neat!!!

Wendy

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One question, I didn't pick up which "wheel" you selected for the G27 since that's not an option (although, as you said it works pretty well.)

I have a G25 and I'm pretty sure I remapped my buttons and tweaked settings on the Logitech Driving Force Pro

EDIT:

About the Damage, I'm sure I have read somewhere that the damage you can cause increases as you get higher level (I think in 10 level steps). You can never totally wreck a car, but you can do enough damage to make it pretty useless, I think.

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Great job on part 1. Looking forward to part 2. Overall I'm a little disapointed with GT5. Even though the physics finally has improved, I still thinkl that the GT5 fails when it comes to driving feeling. Something that has always been a problem with the series. The feel for the car I still feel is a little "clinical". You don't feel like you are totally connected with the car. There is a lack of feel for body roll and suspension movement. Something I think Forza 3 got spot on. Forza is up there with iRacing, GPL and RBR.

Yes I have the Fanatec Turbo wheel, and even though the FF is good, the game is still a let down to me when it comes to the feel of driving. Know if I only could have GT5 Nurburgring version in Forza 3 :)

What's your take on this? On your rating scale would driving feel go under FF or Immersive?

Cheers

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I'm using Nixim brake mod for my G27 pedals and it works as well as CSP. Also If you have ABS off you need to change your brake bias so your brakes will not be as touchy and won't lock up so bad. This works with CSP as well so you don't have to mess with your brake dial on the CSP. Front 5 and Back 5 is too high with ABS off. Depending on the car , I set my brake bias (front:back) 6:2, 4:2, 3:1 and 2:1.

I actually like the feel of g27 brake pedals with nixim mod better than CSP in GT5 as they have a more firmer feel. I've just released My CSP tuning kit so I'll soon mod it's brakes to be more firm as well.

@ Dibz

In case you didn't noticed the AI is both Special events as well as License are scripted so they are in fact driving on rails. Not so in A-spec and B-spec. This will become very obvious in the last event (level 19) in TGTT.

Change your CSPs brake up to the next post and you may say different :)

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Change your CSPs brake up to the next post and you may say different :)

I notice you change your set. The only reason I haven't change it to the next post I was waiting for the tuning kit to come in before taking my CSP apart. Did you put in the longer brake bar from the tuning kit?

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Loved the review, but I am very confused and want to get to the bottom of why our PS3 and GT5 DOES NOT look as good as ANY of our sim racing games that we play on our PC'S. I've found some forums about it here and there, but have not had time to read much. Other people are experiencing the same thing. The graphics of the tracks, trees, cars, and objects just look like an older PS 2 game.

Here is our setup:

PS3 hooked to a Vizio 42" 1080p 60MHz tv using an HDMI cable. This same tv looks AWESOME hooked to our PC's running at 1920x1080 resolution. We've got 2 of them on our racing setups. Please help, cause GT5 does Not look nearly as good as our PC games. Thanks

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Unlike many others I can hardly wait for GT5 to become old news.

There has been so much hype over what is nothing more than a console racing game. I've paid great attention to the reports, and coverage, not to mention what 'reviews' were available up until now, despite having zero interest in ever getting it, and so far I see no reason it should be considered a sim.

ISR/SRT should be applauded for their approach to reviewing GT5, and as usual went pretty in depth to give a proper review thus far (with part 2 in the next episode). However, from what I've read and heard so far, those buying and racing with GT5 must surely fall into two categories....extremely disappointed, or don't know any better. I imagine many are so dazzled by the eye candy they convince themselves it was worth the money.

I can only hope that RF2 and GT3 get the same degree of attention that this 'GAME' has received (from all sectors).

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Loved the review, but I am very confused and want to get to the bottom of why our PS3 and GT5 DOES NOT look as good as ANY of our sim racing games that we play on our PC'S. I've found some forums about it here and there, but have not had time to read much. Other people are experiencing the same thing. The graphics of the tracks, trees, cars, and objects just look like an older PS 2 game.

Here is our setup:

PS3 hooked to a Vizio 42" 1080p 60MHz tv using an HDMI cable. This same tv looks AWESOME hooked to our PC's running at 1920x1080 resolution. We've got 2 of them on our racing setups. Please help, cause GT5 does Not look nearly as good as our PC games. Thanks

Unless there's something wrong with your settings, I think it's just the limitations of the PS3. Remember that the console is 4 years old. The graphics chipset is supposedly similar to an Nvidia 7800. Most games settle for 720p and 30fps, and some even have trouble maintaining that framerate. Running at 1080p and (often) 60fps is rare outside of the PSN stuff that doesn't push the hardware, and it was probably inevitable that there would be some compromises in some of the details. It isn't even rendered at a "true" 1080p but rather something like 1280x1080.

However, I think it's unfair to say it looks like an older PS2 game, unless you're just isolating some details like the blocky shadows or trees that look like cardboard cutouts. While I applaud them for not compromising on framerate, perhaps they went too far considering how bad some of the details look. It might have been best to just shoot for 720p and 60fps.

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I'm surprised you were so kind to GT5, as I sort of expected you guys to blast it. Actually, I love the GT series and I think I would have been rougher on it.

I still don't get the damage in the game. It has no purpose at all.

Yeah i was expecting you to tear it apart tbh. Been waiting for a long time and i was very disappointed :(

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SRT your review of GT5 was spot on and as usual very thorough.

I am having a blast playing the game. It is one of the best wheel games I have played on a console. Right now I am using a Fanatec 911 S but in a couple weeks I will be turning laps in the GT2.

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There has been so much hype over what is nothing more than a console racing game. I've paid great attention to the reports, and coverage, not to mention what 'reviews' were available up until now, despite having zero interest in ever getting it, and so far I see no reason it should be considered a sim.

However, from what I've read and heard so far, those buying and racing with GT5 must surely fall into two categories....extremely disappointed, or don't know any better. I imagine many are so dazzled by the eye candy they convince themselves it was worth the money.

Play the game and you will find a new category. Almost all reviews praise its driving model for a reason.

Also it has the most accurate Nurburgring track in any system plus the fact that there is no comparable PC game that let you drive such amount of road legal cars straight from the manufacturer with that fidelity.

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However, from what I've read and heard so far, those buying and racing with GT5 must surely fall into two categories....extremely disappointed, or don't know any better.

Not sure where you are doing your reading but most I know that purchased GT5 could not be happier with it. SRT seems to be enjoying the game as well so I guess they don't know any better either?

I imagine many are so dazzled by the eye candy they convince themselves it was worth the money.

I am having a blast with the game and for that reason alone it was more than worth the money to me. Most of my friends enjoy NFS:HPLE. I'm not into pure gas & go arcade racers but I don't discredit those that find enjoyment from playing that title.

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Unless there's something wrong with your settings, I think it's just the limitations of the PS3. Remember that the console is 4 years old. The graphics chipset is supposedly similar to an Nvidia 7800. Most games settle for 720p and 30fps, and some even have trouble maintaining that framerate. Running at 1080p and (often) 60fps is rare outside of the PSN stuff that doesn't push the hardware, and it was probably inevitable that there would be some compromises in some of the details. It isn't even rendered at a "true" 1080p but rather something like 1280x1080.

However, I think it's unfair to say it looks like an older PS2 game, unless you're just isolating some details like the blocky shadows or trees that look like cardboard cutouts. While I applaud them for not compromising on framerate, perhaps they went too far considering how bad some of the details look. It might have been best to just shoot for 720p and 60fps.

This GT5 tech analysis article by Eurogamer may be of interest:

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digit ... sis?page=6

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Unlike many others I can hardly wait for GT5 to become old news.

There has been so much hype over what is nothing more than a console racing game. I've paid great attention to the reports, and coverage, not to mention what 'reviews' were available up until now, despite having zero interest in ever getting it, and so far I see no reason it should be considered a sim.

ISR/SRT should be applauded for their approach to reviewing GT5, and as usual went pretty in depth to give a proper review thus far (with part 2 in the next episode). However, from what I've read and heard so far, those buying and racing with GT5 must surely fall into two categories....extremely disappointed, or don't know any better. I imagine many are so dazzled by the eye candy they convince themselves it was worth the money.

I can only hope that RF2 and GT3 get the same degree of attention that this 'GAME' has received (from all sectors).

I've been into racing sims since the old times of Nascar 4, and i drive on a ring (Monza) quite often, and I can't even start to express how wrong you are (and how funny I find that you say all that without even trying the game). The ones that don't know any better are actually some reviewers, that have absolutely no idea what driving a real car is (and as such they can't really gauge what a breakthrough GT5 is for console simulations), or simply know that bashing such a big game will bring their site more controeversy and as such more hits.

Is GT5 as advanced as the most advanced PC sims physics and handling-wise? Not really, but it comes very close and laps anything else on console. On top of that it pushes the envelope in visual fidelity and variety (in which the most hardcore PC sims normally lack, like iRacing, that sports an awesome engine, but it's so US-centric that it's actual relevance to the world of international motorsports is minimal). So yeah, GT5 definitely has a place between the best simulators.

--

Anyway, back to the episode. It was actually very nice, and the review was quite fair (even if I don't agree with everything said, but that's tastes), but there's one thing that was pretty imprecise.

When the hosts talked about the Logitech Driving Force GT applied to the game, they told that the brake goes from 0 to 100% even with a slight pressure. That's untrue. The only reason that happened is because the pedal needs to be fully depressed once after launching the game for it to be calibrated. After that it will actually very precise and effective. Also, on my Driving Force GT I don't experience the slightest wheel dead zone, so that might be a calibration problem of the wheel you use at the studio. While I agree that the Fanatec is the best wheel available for GT5, the DFGT is definitely a great solution, considering it's price. There's definitely no "unfair advantage" using the clubsport brake pedal over the DFGT one.

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Loved the review, but I am very confused and want to get to the bottom of why our PS3 and GT5 DOES NOT look as good as ANY of our sim racing games that we play on our PC'S. I've found some forums about it here and there, but have not had time to read much. Other people are experiencing the same thing. The graphics of the tracks, trees, cars, and objects just look like an older PS 2 game.

Here is our setup:

PS3 hooked to a Vizio 42" 1080p 60MHz tv using an HDMI cable. This same tv looks AWESOME hooked to our PC's running at 1920x1080 resolution. We've got 2 of them on our racing setups. Please help, cause GT5 does Not look nearly as good as our PC games. Thanks

Oh, come on, this is definitely the old tired PC sim elitism. While it's true that normally PC games can look better than console games, this isn't the case for racing simulators. basically all PC sims lack a lot in lighting, effects and additional and that's an advantage that allows GT5 to beat them all easily visual-fidelity wise. Also, there's no PC simulators that has cars that sports even a quarter of the number of polygons sported by any standard car on GT5.

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Yeah i was expecting you to tear it apart tbh. Been waiting for a long time and i was very disappointed :(

You were disappointed because some reviewers liked a game (that has a LOT of reasons to be liked)? How droll.

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Great review so far guys, your thoughts are very similar to mine but I would have been a little more critical about the flaws.

One part I'm not too happy about is the early Top Sim Car scores. The scores you have given are not very fair as you only considered the cars from one point of view in the game. You may not have realised by the time you scored the cars that they have different physics in online and offline and damage is completely different online. If you had scored the cars on damage based on online your score would have no doubt been higher likewise if you spent more time testing the cars online your physics scores may have been different.

GT5 is unique in this aspect, I don't know why they have different engines but they do. So how do you score it? 50:50? Or do you value and score online higher than offline? It makes it hard because different people value one more than the other, to me sim racing is about racing real people online so the online physics and damage are more crucial to me but you need to play offline to get cars. Either way your scores are not fair or accurate especially considering the other titles that fill the leaderboard. I think if you gave the scoring a little more thought and considered the crucial online physics and damage your scores would be different.

Offline - since you have not progressed far into the game tyre physics haven't been fully revealed yet = unfair lower score.

Online - after the 3 patches damage is far better and mechanical damage has now been added = online damage will score higher. Different physics engine, tyre physics are more realistic, fuel load physics are unrealistic (you start with a 100 litre load with a unreal centre of gravity), cars are much more difficult to roll.

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