Episode 84 - WRC 2010 Review

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

In this Episode we check out the PC version of WRC 2010 by Milestone and Blackbean. We put it on the "Shibami" , We also show you how to set up a G27 or Logitech wheel with WRC. Hope you enjoy the show !

[PAPA 1]

Great show as ever

I am liking the addition of the bloopers at the end

[BoodyBandit 1]

WRC looks like a great game but I will wait to see if they patch it for the Fanatec wheels before I consider purchasing it.

[isamu 4]

Excellent show as always guys, thanks

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

WRC looks like a great game but I will wait to see if they patch it for the Fanatec wheels before I consider purchasing it.

No word from them on a patch.. Im hoping

[OutRun 0]

Thanks for the review, I tried the demo after watching it and I liked it. I did find the menus confusing and there were several graphical glitches in the menus that made them more confusing. But after I got the game started I had fun.

I will now likely buy this game when it is released in the US as long as the graphical glitches are corrected.

[scleeve 0]

Great review guys.

Living in Wales, UK (I'll be spectating the WRC in 3 weeks here) I'm a huge rally fan and I've been waiting for this for some time now.

I've been playing this game, with a Logitech G25 on the PS3 for a week, and besides its many flaws such as poor sounds, old washy graphics (pop-ups), lack of decent environmental FFB, and repeating stages, it still is great fun, especially the group B cars (DLC in my case). Obviously its more to the core of proper rallying than the aracdey Dirt2 game I just had to trade in months ago.

OK its no RBR10 sim (which I use on my brother's PC) but as you've mentioned it sits inbetween arcade and sim, and it was never going to be a sim, so I don't know what people expected.

Knowing Milestone and Blackbean (i've had SBK series and V8) I can't see them patching this when they will just bring out a new version next year,and the following year after that, but the online is pretty good and its enough of a challenge for me keep me going back when there are still some quick racers out there.

So overall, flawed but still great proper fun, and as you've said, it keeps calling me back for more too. 7/10 for me. It will get better, it should of been better, and I just hope they listen to the users and improve it.

[mgweatherly 0]

Thanks so much for the insight and perspective that you bring to simracing. Your review of WRC caused me to give it another chance after initial disappointment with the demo version.

I am new to PC racing and have gotten hooked playing DiRT2. Over time I have gotten decent but not great, and I'm still looking for speed. Perhaps games with more accurate physics leave more room for improvement than the "arcade" style games. I'd love to hear your view on that. So far, I have not spent any time on a "sim" title like iRacing or rFactor, mostly because they appear to take too much time to configure correctly. I also admit to being a little intimidated by how tough they are to master (based on a very small amount of time on an rFactor trial version). I provide information about me for context to frame my thoughts about WRC below.

I have been playing the WRC demo with a G27 since its release and been a little disappointed. I can "look" past the sub-par graphics (compared to DiRT2 and F1 2010). However, I believe that good graphics is more than just eye candy for any racing game/sim. After all, the visuals are the primary (if not the only) feedback mechanism used to drive a sim. Adding a quality force feedback wheel can provide lots more feedback, and this where my disappointment with WRC is rooted. Honestly, I don't know how anyone "drives" a sim car using a gamepad or keyboard, but it is apparent that some do it really well.

WRC simply fails to give me the feedback through the wheel that I have come to expect from playing the most recent Codemasters titles. Worse, as I understand it, I am using the BEST wheel for WRC, the G27. Specifically, I cannot feel the brakes lock up at all, I have to wait for the visual cue that the car is no longer steering. This lack of feedback is making it tough to get the braking right and leads me to start braking earlier and lose more speed than necessary. The Jordan rally course in the demo is particularly hard to drive without braking feedback because the gravel is so slippery. I would hate to see how tough it would be to drive one of the snowy Norway stages.

By contrast, DiRT2 gives you a sensation of the wheels locking by having the resistance in the wheel suddenly disappear. WRC also fails to transmit any information about the quality of the surface (e.g., bumps, stones, ruts). In DiRT2, I had really grown accustomed to using this feedback to help judge how close I was to the "edge" during a race.

The sound in WRC is also really lacking. I would have given it a much poorer mark than you, and I believe audio is more important to get right (again, the feedback thing). I play the game on a 6.1 surround system in a home theater with a 132" inch diagonal screen and the sound just feels really "small" and hollow. I get almost no driving help from the audio. I barely get any information about shift points from the audio track. Sorry to keep comparing WRC to DiRT2, but the bumps, rocks, skids, and engine sounds are far superior in DiRT2. I also love how DiRT2 changes the audio based on the view that you choose. The cockpit view definitely gives the best audio feedback in DiRT2. As near as I can tell, WRC streams the same distant and hollow audio regardless of the view.

I really wanted to like WRC, and I am still considering it given your praise of the physics. I just wish the physics were more connected to FEEDBACK.

Personally, I'd love it if you explained a little more to us novices about what constitutes accurate vs. "arcade" physics, how you tell, and why one physics engine is closer to reality than the other. I realize that, as a "gamer" rather than a simracer, I may not be in your most vocal audience. However, I think I'm likely part of the growth audience for PC racing.

Thanks for all that you do. It's apparent that you love it.

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

Thanks so much for the insight and perspective that you bring to simracing. Your review of WRC caused me to give it another chance after initial disappointment with the demo version.

Personally, I'd love it if you explained a little more to us novices about what constitutes accurate vs. "arcade" physics, how you tell, and why one physics engine is closer to reality than the other. I realize that, as a "gamer" rather than a simracer, I may not be in your most vocal audience. However, I think I'm likely part of the growth audience for PC racing.

Thanks for all that you do. It's apparent that you love it.

What a post ! ..

We base our physics score on personal experiences driving and compare it to the best sims out there.. Dirt 2 has good road feel.. But if you want to experience the one and only true Rally experience with top notch physics, go to Richard Burns Rally.

Personally, what have I driven off road?? Nothing professional.. But, I used to drive a lot of off road in a Jeep Grand Cherokee that was 4WD and had about 250 HP and could really slide around. I used to "Rally" on some trails in the San Bernadino mountains, so I know how it feels to drive hard and fast in the dirt. Have also riden quads at a high rate of speed.

Street, I've been on track many times on my 1000cc Sport bike and in my 400 HP 97 Camaro that has built suspension..Top speeds I've driven.. 160 mph in the Camaro and 165 mph or so on the bike.. I've also driven a Legends car for about 100 laps on a 1/3 mile asphalt oval. A formula Ford at Riverside back in the 80s as well as a little karting..

Shaun and I recently got to do the 2 seater ride at Infinion in an Indycar and man talk about grip and horsepower. I felt first hand how fast those cars go.. Not that they were at race speed, but they are hauling ass.

Shaun worked at Jim Russel racing school as a mechanic and drove a car thats similar to the Skip Barber car in iRacing, even in the rain one time.. and raced shifter karts at places like California Speedway.

Neither of us are pro racers, but feel we have enough seat time at speed to be a decent judge of good physics. We've also driven just about every simulated car ever made and been involved in some big events. Shaun and I have finished many endurance races together which is how we became friends. I've been sim racing since 1995 online and since 1990 or so offline with titles like Indy 500 The Simulation and World Circuit Grand Prix.

Now to WRC.. The final version is better than the demo, no doubt. I assume based on your games that you're on the PS3 ? On the PC, I was able to make a lot of adjustments in the profiler settings to create more feel, rotation, FFB effects, etc.

FYI.. Dirt 2 on the PS3 is probably the best FFB the PS3 has ever seen. F1 Championship Edition and F1 2010 are good as well.. Gran Turismo 5 P.. so so .. GT5 the final version seems better but I need more seat time with it. Never tried NFS Shift on the PS3, so not sure about that.

If you want the real deal.. You need to get a PC and run Richard Burns, iRacing, LFS, Netkar Pro or rFactor to do some hard core sim racing. The closest it gets on the PS3 is F1 CE, F1 2010, WRC, Dirt 2 and GT5. That G27 works like a champ on the PC

[olimac 0]

As usual, great show.

I downloaded the demo for PC and could not set up my wheel (Thrustamsters Ferrari 430) but even playing the game with keyboard I wanted to like it, really wanted to like it. I even posted in this forum regarding an e-mail I sent the support department at Blackbean and got a very generic answer. I told myself, wait and see what people say , especially Insidesimracing.tv.

I know you guys cannot try the game with every single wheel out there but I was really looking forward to your review when you mentioned that you would be giving advice setting up various wheels and the only ones mentioned were the Fanatec and the Logitech. I did hear Darin say something about issues with Thrustamster .

Some years ago Black bean developed a game called SCAR (Squadra Corse Alfa Romeo)a great great game but it was a total pain to setup and program the controller . It seems like Blackbean replicated this complication. This probably means that every time I am going to use the controller with another game I would have to go and change the settings (pedal axis, spring, etc?) How archaic. According to the pictures posted in Blackbean’s blog and also in the list that the response from Blackbean referred me to,the F430 is listed as a compatible wheel.

http://www.wrcthegame.com/IT-it/content ... rollo.html

I have not bought the game yet, I have the means of asking a friend to send it form the UK, but ease of use and set up is a key point when using a game, especially a new game. I put up with the complicated interface in RBRS2010 (not for the controller) but I paid that money a long time ago so all this content is just juicing my investment even more.

As a suggestion this could be another category in your game reviews: Ease of use or Ease of set up and compatibility(not just with the two top steering wheels but other controllers as well)

But great, great show, really watching you guys (Jessica in particular ) here in Afghanistan is a a great joy, and I really follow your advice. Take care.

[mgweatherly 0]

@Darin: Wow! I wasn't expecting such a quick response to my post I did not mean to imply that you had no frame of reference for judging good physics. I hope it did not come across that way. I do appreciate your explanation, and I understand good physics to be roughly equivalent to "realistic behavior" on the road/track/course. Thanks.

I am playing the PC version of the WRC demo, and I used your Logitech profiler settings on my G27 after watching the review. Previously, I had been playing the demo using the default profile (not the single axis setup, which I understand is required to permit left-foot braking). After I changed the wheel settings, I had to drive for a good hour before I got used to the setup. At first, the new settings made the wheel feel really slow and slushy. However, I think I'll be quicker with the settings you suggested in the review.

Is the full PC version substantially better than the demo?

Also, a note about availability in the U.S. It's not available until November through a different publisher. I even looked into buying it on Amazon's UK site and having it shipped here. No dice - I think licensing restrictions prevent it.

[grafpt 0]

Hey Darin, You mentioned the game will be on The Sim Mart, Do you know when? because as you guys stated, and all I have read, is it's not going to be in US until Nov 30th?!! Will Sim Mart have before that?

Loved the episode and F1 ep as well (though should have not been as nice because the bugs are horrible lol)

thanks.

[OutRun 0]

FYI, the official WRC 2010 facebook page claims a release date of January for the US

[grafpt 0]

Are you serious? Wow, they are prob not going to sell any here. GT5 will be out :/

[mgweatherly 0]

But if you want to experience the one and only true Rally experience with top notch physics, go to Richard Burns Rally.

I watched your Episode 55 review of RBR (a really cool episode), and now I have to try it out. I just ordered it from thesimmart.com and have downloaded the massive RSRBR 2010 mod. Wish me luck installing it on my Windows 7 64-bit system.

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

I watched your Episode 55 review of RBR (a really cool episode), and now I have to try it out. I just ordered it from thesimmart.com and have downloaded the massive RSRBR 2010 mod. Wish me luck installing it on my Windows 7 64-bit system.

AWESOME !! It should run fine. We're running Win 7 - 64..

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

@Darin: Wow! I wasn't expecting such a quick response to my post I did not mean to imply that you had no frame of reference for judging good physics. I hope it did not come across that way. I do appreciate your explanation, and I understand good physics to be roughly equivalent to "realistic behavior" on the road/track/course. Thanks.

Is the full PC version substantially better than the demo?

Also, a note about availability in the U.S. It's not available until November through a different publisher. I even looked into buying it on Amazon's UK site and having it shipped here. No dice - I think licensing restrictions prevent it.

I honestly haven't tried the PC demo since I've had a full version since mid August. The final version did get better than the earlier one though.

No offense taken to questioning how we come up with our scores on physics.. Was actually cool sitting there thinking about all the cars and bikes I've driven at speed.

[Scorpean 0]

WRC looks like a great game but I will wait to see if they patch it for the Fanatec wheels before I consider purchasing it.

I was able to get the PC version running with my Fanatec Turbo S by using it in Xbox 360 mode and connecting to the PC with the MS dongle. It seems to only give me rumble feedback and not force feedback even though it recognizes it as a wheel. I am able to map the buttons too. One thing in this mode it sees both my paddle shifters and sequential shifter as the same so I'm not able to set my sequential shift as an E-brake. It's OK though since the "hairpin turns" are not really hairpins. But at least I'm able to run with it until the patch comes out.

[AProst 0]

Hi,

Your show was interesting as usual.

I had tried the demo before wachting the show and I must recognise that I was deceived by WRC demo. I had to read forums to understand that using a wheel was possible...

I found FFB with G25 rather poor: I did not find a way to adjust strength, and there was no feed back for bumps, no vibrations... :/

No left foot braking is really a pity for a rally game... :/

Handbrake is not usefull at all... hairpins are just slow corners.

RBR rules...

I prefer Dirt2... and not only for graphics... :/

[PAPA 1]

I gave the demo a try...... Meh the feel through the wheel is odd like treacle I can't explain it, just feels naff.

The graphics are somewhat poor but I could live with that if the game was really good. My m8 has the full game so I'll give it a go again.

O forgot to add .... The ffb is poor and just feels wrong.... and you get bk rumble on take off but not on landing As I said I am only trying the demo so may not be the same in the full version..

[HoiHman 2]

A very very simple solution to all Fanatec PWTS owners to get your wheel working in this game:

1. Connect your wheel to the pc and switch it on

2. Press the connect button and the back button at the same time

3. Now the wheel boots in to the G25 mode (PS3 mode)

4. Download and install Logitech Profiler, make a profile for WRC and activate the combined pedal settings .

5. Start the game and select wheel and you are good too go.

I'm realy starting to like this game. I changed the setup for less over steer and now the game is great fun to drive.

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

A very very simple solution to all Fanatec PWTS owners to get your wheel working in this game:

1. Connect your wheel to the pc and switch it on

2. Press the connect button and the back button at the same time

3. Now the wheel boots in to the G25 mode (PS3 mode)

4. Download and install Logitech Profiler, make a profile for WRC and activate the combined pedal settings .

5. Start the game and select wheel and you are good too go.

I'm realy starting to like this game. I changed the setup for less over steer and now the game is great fun to drive.

Thats a good solution but not one we would promote on teh show

Great to hear you're enjoying the game unlike some haters that want me lynched for liking

[olimac 0]

Very foolish question. If the Demo ran fine in my PC, the full version will run as well. Yes?

Thanks

[PAPA 1]

Danm you Darin for having a mind of your own, how dare you enjoy something without permission

Now go and burn that game and repent.... Say " I will not have fun in games 1000 times " and no Gamepod for a month. my wife added that last bit because you keep making me spend money on "racing crap" as she calls it

Still waiting to get the full game off my m8 for a go but he likes it. It's on 360 btw ( not getting pirate copy, just a lend of the game )

[lilbro209 0]

This is the second game that has come out recently that has snubbed Fnatec in some way. Do you think logitech may be going around and making some kind of back door visit to these developers last minute?? IDK but sounds fishy to me that 2 of the last games to come out have had the same problem.. Just saying.......