Advice on first wheel - Sept 2014

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Hi guys,

New to the forums but I've had a good browse and google on what appears to be quite a hotly contested topic! I appreciate that this type of question will have been asked many times and that personal preference comes in to it, but I would be grateful for any advice!

I've been a long-time fan of the GT series and spent many hours on a Thrustmaster Ferrari Challenge wheel back in the day. I'm now looking at getting back into driving with a wheel, with going deeper into sim-racing a possibility in the future.

I'd like to here your thoughts on what you suggest suits my budget and needs. I will be playing some GT5/GT6 on the PS3 and I'd like to spend up to $400 on a wheel and stand. 

Looking at Fanatec I'd have a couple options:

• CSR - $199.95 + pedals of my choice (either CSR $79.95 or the CSR Elite - $149.95) for a total of $ $279.90 or $349.90 respectively
• GT3 RS bundle - $229.95 including the CSR pedals
• CSL Seat GT3 RS bundle - $399.95 including the CSL seat and the CSR pedals.

The CSL seat bundle is tempting since I'd have a seat rigged up from the start without needing to buy a stand. It's also meant to be quite light and easy to store, a positive as I'm currently living in a small apartment. 

Logitech G27

Currently $209.99 on Amazon, I've read quite a bit about the performance and build quality of the G27. I'd look to mod the brake pedals, add the quick release as well and perhaps add a couple of cosmetic tweaks. I do like that it includes the stick shift in the package. Does it really matter that this is an older wheel design now? 

Thrustmaster

I think the T500 RS is out of my price range ($599 on Amazon) and I'm not sure about the T300 either when it is released in the US ($400?). However I've read great things about both wheels. I don't plan on ditching my PS3 anytime soon but PS4 compatibility is a plus. 


Would the CSL bundle work best for my budget needs, allowing me to have a racing style seat and wheel stand for cheap? Would I be better buying a different wheel/pedal combo and going the DIY route to build a stand/seat for racing? Or am I best to be save and be patient for newer wheels to be released? 

I realise that there are a few questions in this post, but I want to help make my goals clear! 

Cheers!

[Gunstar 615]

My first thought is G27 with a Wheelstand Pro or Fanatec CSL stand... BUT with the GT3/CSL seat combo getting you in there at $400 tho that's hard to beat. 

[SteveS 1,391]

Welcom to the forum The_Scotsman4

 

G27 is an outstanding starter wheel & pedals for the price. Add a brake pedal mod which is cheap and makes a major difference. You can have a lot of fun for minimal cost. G27 is pretty bullet proof and can be purchased used, but they do retain the value well. One big draw back, I hated the rattling sound & notchy feel of G27, my wife also used to complain when I played rally event like RBR or Dirt even when I closed the door!

 

Overtime, if you love the hobby add Fanatec clubsport V2 pedals & buy or build a rig. Both these are more important than a wheel upgrade.

 

I started with G27 & home made wheel stand. It was a great way of seeing my real level of interest. 

 

IF you honestly feel you will truly "love" the hobby, in my opinion the Thrustmaster provides a much nicer driving experience, so worth the investment, but the typical standard two pedals suck so the investment does not stop with just a thrustmaster wheel. T500 comes with a decent set of pedals which can be modified in the future with load cell.

[bozakn 4]

If you've got money to gamble with, you could go with Fanatec, maybe it' ll work great for you. But if you don't, my advice is the DIY route for the seat, and a T300 GTE wheel. Find somewhere a G27 pedal set, mod the brake, and you' ll have a great combo. G27 is the best bang for the buck, but that horrible clunking completely ruines the immersion factor. 

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Thanks for all the input so far guys, I appreciate the friendly advice! 

My first thought is G27 with a Wheelstand Pro or Fanatec CSL stand... BUT with the GT3/CSL seat combo getting you in there at $400 tho that's hard to beat. 

Is the GT3 wheel still a good buy? Is it likely to be replaced by a new wheel soon?

 

Welcom to the forum The_Scotsman4

 

G27 is an outstanding starter wheel & pedals for the price. Add a brake pedal mod which is cheap and makes a major difference. You can have a lot of fun for minimal cost. G27 is pretty bullet proof and can be purchased used, but they do retain the value well. One big draw back, I hated the rattling sound & notchy feel of G27, my wife also used to complain when I played rally event like RBR or Dirt even when I closed the door!

 

Overtime, if you love the hobby add Fanatec clubsport V2 pedals & buy or build a rig. Both these are more important than a wheel upgrade.

 

I started with G27 & home made wheel stand. It was a great way of seeing my real level of interest. 

 

IF you honestly feel you will truly "love" the hobby, in my opinion the Thrustmaster provides a much nicer driving experience, so worth the investment, but the typical standard two pedals suck so the investment does not stop with just a thrustmaster wheel. T500 comes with a decent set of pedals which can be modified in the future with load cell.

I do feel as though this hobby will be one that I stay with, as I've been big into motor sport from a young age and I'd like to practice some more advanced driving on a simulator before hitting the track in real life! 

 

With a rig being important, would I be wise to buy the CSL seat or an Omega GT stand and add the frame + seat later in the year? 

 

If you've got money to gamble with, you could go with Fanatec, maybe it' ll work great for you. But if you don't, my advice is the DIY route for the seat, and a T300 GTE wheel. Find somewhere a G27 pedal set, mod the brake, and you' ll have a great combo. G27 is the best bang for the buck, but that horrible clunking completely ruines the immersion factor. 

I'd like to stay within my budget to be honest, at least at this beginning stage! I could spend $400 on a wheel but I'd still need to get a stand for it. The T300 does look very nice though and if I were to wait and save it may be an option!

[SteveS 1,391]

For me I loved rallying in UK, in my younger days. I always loved cars. I'm lucky enough to own 1968 Mini Cooper, she even came to Canada with us 25 years ago!

So if cars are in the blood, the I would save a little more and go the Thrustmaster route, just because it emotionally feels more real in a subtle way.

 

Personally I would buy Omega GT stand, for one single reason. It would be easy to adapt it in the future with a real car seat. It looks strong and well designed!

 

In my opinion GT3 wheel is good, but now showing it's age...

 

What you quickly learn with a wheel stand is it moves at the most awkward times! Second thing you learn is your partner does not enjoy watching or listening to the sound of pedals, paddles & braking when your having fun...

 

My Sim racing experience, One step at a time...

1. Console racing,
2. Cheap wheel & pedals, wheel stand, (G27 & Pedals)
3. Better place to sit in comfort, so everything is secure! (DIY sim rig),
4. PC racing,
5. Headphones (Much easier to hear tire reactions in iRacing, plus the whole house does not need to hear)
6. 3 monitors (Awesome single most improvement) 
7. Improved wheel (Thrustmaster, awesome improvement)
8. Better braking control (Awesome emotional improvement, because you feel the brake point VS positional muscle memory)
9. Start adding real race rims, button plates & button boxes.
10. Maybe motion next?
11. etc.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

 

For me I loved rallying in UK, in my younger days. I always loved cars. I'm lucky enough to own 1968 Mini Cooper, she even came to Canada with us 25 years ago!

So if cars are in the blood, the I would save a little more and go the Thrustmaster route, just because it emotionally feels more real in a subtle way.

 

Personally I would buy Omega GT stand, for one single reason. It would be easy to adapt it in the future with a real car seat. It looks strong and well designed!

 

In my opinion GT3 wheel is good, but now showing it's age...

 

What you quickly learn with a wheel stand is it moves at the most awkward times! Second thing you learn is your partner does not enjoy watching or listening to the sound of pedals, paddles & braking when your having fun...

 

My Sim racing experience, One step at a time...

1. Console racing,
2. Cheap wheel & pedals, wheel stand, (G27 & Pedals)
3. Better place to sit in comfort, so everything is secure! (DIY sim rig),
4. PC racing,
5. Headphones (Much easier to hear tire reactions in iRacing, plus the whole house does not need to hear)
6. 3 monitors (Awesome single most improvement) 
7. Improved wheel (Thrustmaster, awesome improvement)
8. Better braking control (Awesome emotional improvement, because you feel the brake point VS positional muscle memory)
9. Start adding real race rims, button plates & button boxes.
10. Maybe motion next?
11. etc.

 

Steve,

 

I'll be showing my age here, but I was only 5 years old when Colin McRae won his WRC title in 1995. The same year fellow Scotsman John Cleland won the BTCC; I watched the season review video tape so much that it wore out! I've been lucky enough to meet Cleland, the McRae family (friends of my Uncle) and the DiResta's as well. 

 

The Mini Cooper sounds great, must be a bit of fun driving it around Canada?! It was a fun experience learning to shift with my right hand, not my left when I moved over to America 5 years ago!

 

I watched the ISR video review of the CSL seat and I think it'd want to get a real seat fairly quickly if I log a bunch of hours; I'm a young guy but play golf, so I don't want to hurt my back! 

 

I may end up following your steps, seems like a lot of racers start out on a G27 before upgrading to a Thrustmaster or Fanatec CSW. The G27 is cheaper just now (than other options) which may allow me to build the racing stand and proper seat. 

[SteveS 1,391]

Also showing my age! I started rallying before Colin. He was a wonderful driver with a real passion to win at all costs. Very great loss to rallying...

I happened to do a search last night to watch some old WRC events with Colin driving. A fun memory recall on all the rally drivers from my time! Ford Escort, MG Metro, TR8, Quatro, Stratos, integrale, etc. Cars back then were so much harder to drive... The engine sounds of these cars will live with me forever, each one very unique! It would be fun doing a ISRTV forum "sound test", for these! Anyone from Europe 45+ would be able to name the rally car ONLY from the sound...

 

Most people who race real cars have back problems, especially rallying guys! So we tend to quickly upgrade the seat, don't care what it looks like but must be comfortable!

 

Group B, rally cars for real men and one special women!

Funny I have been in Canada 25 years, but my sim rig is setup English style, gear shift & handbrake on the left. No idea why, it just "feels" right when driving fast.

Little English Mini feels very odd to drive in Canada! The sad part is women saying how "cute" it is! When it was imported customs lady refused to allow it in as a four seater, because it's so small at only 10ft long!

G27 is honestly a good wheel, and should last a few years before you want to upgrade.

I hope you enjoy the hobby, lots of good people in this forum...

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Also showing my age! I started rallying before Colin. He was a wonderful driver with a real passion to win at all costs. Very great loss to rallying...

 

I happened to do a search last night to watch some old WRC events with Colin driving. A fun memory recall on all the rally drivers from my time! Ford Escort, MG Metro, TR8, Quatro, Stratos, integrale, etc. Cars back then were so much harder to drive... The engine sounds of these cars will live with me forever, each one very unique! It would be fun doing a ISRTV forum "sound test", for these! Anyone from Europe 45+ would be able to name the rally car ONLY from the sound...

 

Most people who race real cars have back problems, especially rallying guys!  So we tend to quickly upgrade the seat, don't car what it looks like but must be comfortable!

 

Funny I have been in Canada 25 years, but my sim rig is setup English style, gear shift & handbrake on the left. No idea why, it just "feels" right when driving fast.

 

Little English Mini feels very odd to drive in Canada! The sad part is women saying how "cute" it is! When it was imported customs lady refused to allow it in as a four seater, because it's so small at only 10ft long!

 

G27 is honestly a good wheel, and should last a few years before you want to upgrade.

 

I hope you enjoy the hobby, lots of good people in this forum...

Haha well that's great you've still got a passion for motor sports! 

 

Colin was truly talented, always spectacular to watch. One of my favourite clips is him and Nicky Grist flying over the Bunnings Jumps in '97, total commitment to winning a stage/rally flat out over the huge jumps. I wish I'd been able to see and hear the Group B cars, a golden age of rallying that we'll never witness again. 

 

Would you recommend a reclinable bucket seat? 

 

Haha that pretty funny! I had a VW Polo; there's something fun about small, light, front wheel drive hatches! 

 

I'm interested to see how much the T300 will be, but I think sticking to my budget and getting a decent wheel, stand and seat combo will be good for starting out. Reckon that would offer a better overall experience, than having a better wheel without the seat etc?

 

Looking forward to learning much more from the forums! 

[SteveS 1,391]

In my opinion with a budget of $400. buy a G27, a solid stand and reasonable seat provides more enjoyment to the hobby.

VS buying great wheel, cheap stand and sitting on the sofa. Chasing pedals around the floor every time you brake hard! Sadly many of have been there! It's part of the sim learning experience....

So is looking at your partner face when you say your buying or making a sim rig, and your no longer a teenager! A classic marriage moment!

Buying a comfortable seat from scrap yard, is better than cheap racing seat. One looks the part, the other allows for more sustained enjoyment.

A reclinable bucket seat is a nice to have item, nothing more unless you have a bad back...

I bought nice leather BMW 3 series seat from scrap yard, happens to recline when I figured out wiring! Make sure you take the seat rails, then it's adjustable back and forth when friends visit.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

In my opinion. G27, solid stand and reasonable seat provides more enjoyment to the hobby.

Vs great wheel, cheap stand and sitting on the sofa. Chasing pedals around the floor every time you brake hard! Sadly been there! It's part of the sim learning experience.... So is looking at your partner face when you say your buying or making a sim rig, and your no longer a teenager! A classic marriage moment!

Comfortable seat from scrap yard, is better than cheap racing seat. One looks the part, the other allows for more sustained enjoyment.

reclinable bucket seat is a nice to have, nothing more...

I bought nice leather BMW 3 series seat from scrap yard, happens to recline when I figured out wiring! Make sure you take the seat rails, then it's adjustable back and forth when friends visit.

Yeah I remember using the Thrustmaster on the floor as a kid, never got around to clamping it so any wheel will be a good experience if I have it mounted properly. 

 

I had a look at your DIY Sim Rig - I think it looks great and I'll aim for something like that when I have a bigger apartment/house. The Omega GT looks like it would enable me to store it in the closet and maybe even let the seat be used on its own. Your BMW one looks great! 

 

I appreciate the advice thus far! I'd be interested to hear what Fanatec GT3 RS user's have experienced with their wheels. The bundle is probably the same as the G27 (with pedal mod) but without a shifter (not a deal breaker but a con for sure).

[SteveS 1,391]

Anyone wonder what we were talking about with Colin McRae.... My little tribute to a very special Scottish man!

 

Colin and Nicky Grist flying over the Bunnings Jumps in '97, total commitment!

 

1998 amazing driving!

 

In memory of his greatness!

 

 

How would you enjoy driving a world class rally car along this road!

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Anyone wonder what we were talking about with Colin McRae.... My little tribute to a very special Scottish man!

 

Colin and Nicky Grist flying over the Bunnings Jumps in '97, total commitment!

 

I love that at the end of the stage he turns to Nicky and says "Did ya like that wee man?!", you could tell Colin had a lot of fun! 

 

80,000 spectators on that stage in Portugal, crazy stuff! It's a shame the WRC isn't what it once was, though this year it seems to be going in the right direction. 

 

Colin is sorely missed; such a tragedy. "If in doubt, flat out!"

[SteveS 1,391]

His driving style was truly amazing and he loved what he did! For him only winning was acceptable second place was never satisfactory! Sabastian Leob won many, many more world championships, he is a team player who calculated every move. Colin always drove like he had one life to live, and he wanted to live it at 10/10ths...

[The_Scotsman4 8]

His driving style was truly amazing and he loved what he did! For him only winning was acceptable second place was never satisfactory! Sabastian Leob won many, many more world championships, he is a team player who calculated every move. Colin always drove like he had one life to live, and he wanted to live it at 10/10ths...

Yeah, Malcom Wilson's story about the Cyrpus Rally in 2002 is a perfect example of McRae's flat out attitude:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f8otan-iBa8

[SteveS 1,391]

Thanks for compliments on my rig, it's modest compared to many here! My suggestion, start slow, buy a new thing every six months and before long you have a really fun setup.

Have fun, we can all feel like Colin McRae for a few hours per week! Relaxation after a busy week at work, at a fraction of the cost of real racing. My wife often laughs after my style of automotive work out with a steering wheel, and grin on my face.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Thanks for compliments on my rig, it's modest compared to many here! My suggestion, start slow, buy a new thing every six months and before long you have a really fun setup.

Have fun, we can all feel like Colin McRae for a few hours per week! Relaxation after a busy week at work, at a fraction of the cost of real racing. My wife often laughs after my style of automotive work out with a steering wheel, and grin on my face.

Yeah I've seen some crazy rigs on the forums! Had a quick go in a motion rig at the Long Beach GP this year, Cadillac had one set up at their booth!

 

Well I've gone ahead and pulled the trigger on the G27 - it'll be here on thursday courtesy of Amazon Prime. Was very tempted to order the GT3 RS, but we'll see how the G27 is. Also ordered the Omega GT stand; it was expensive but worth it I hope! Ironically, they are based in Glasgow which is around 20 mins from where my parents still live! Might have to visit their shop when I'm home for a visit at christmas! 

 

Excited to get racing this weekend. Cheers for all the advice!

[SteveS 1,391]

Enjoy your hardware purchase, and getting setup.

The software you buy depends on the type of racing style you enjoy.

Codemaster F1 series or Dirt series or Grid Autosport are lots of fun. Ideal when you just want to relax and have fun.

Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, Iracing are more serious. IRacing is the best but requires serious dedication to do well.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Enjoy your hardware purchase, and getting setup.

The software you buy depends on the type of racing style.

Codemaster F1 series or Dirt series or Grid Autosport are lots of fun.

Assetto Corsa, Project Cars, Iracing are more serious. IRacing is the best but requires serious dedication to do well.

Thanks Steve!

 

I think console gaming will do me for the next or so, then I'll build a PC for racing Assetto Corsa, Project Cars and eventually iRacing. 

 

I've played a lot of GT, Forza and the F1 series in the last few years. Not played much of Dirt, but I preferred the old Colin McRae rally games

[SteveS 1,391]

One last recommendation. Buy a brake spring mod for G27 it makes a big difference. I bought nixum mod but gteye also has good reputation http://www.gteye.com.au/

[The_Scotsman4 8]

One last recommendation. Buy a brake spring mod for G27 it makes a big difference. I bought nixum mod but gteye also has good reputation http://www.gteye.com.au/

Definitely on the list, in fact part of the budget when buying this over the Fanatec (and the fact the G27 has the shifter included). I know the mod voids the warranty, but the G27 is pretty reliable right? I shouldn't encounter any issues?

[Simon Maltby 185]

Personally I would go for the Fanatec kit.  My reason being that its easy to upgrade each part later.

If and when you get totally hooked - which you will - on sim racing, you can upgrade each part and they will remain compatible.

 

I would recommend picking up a set of Club Sport V1 pedals second hand, there is not much to go wrong with the pedals and the club sports are vastly superior to the basic CSR's.

 

Looking forward and thinking of further expansion, you can look at the CSW base, CSP V2 pedals and SQ Shifter without having to replace everything in one go, because they all work together.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

Personally I would go for the Fanatec kit.  My reason being that its easy to upgrade each part later.

If and when you get totally hooked - which you will - on sim racing, you can upgrade each part and they will remain compatible.

 

I would recommend picking up a set of Club Sport V1 pedals second hand, there is not much to go wrong with the pedals and the club sports are vastly superior to the basic CSR's.

 

Looking forward and thinking of further expansion, you can look at the CSW base, CSP V2 pedals and SQ Shifter without having to replace everything in one go, because they all work together.

 

Hope this helps and good luck.

Thanks for the insights!

 

I committed to ordering the G27 from Amazon last night. I really like the look of the Fanatec products and I'm sure in the future I'll look to upgrade to the CSW base, CSP pedals. Just now I want to stick to my budget and build a small rig to start with. Once I've built a PC for racing, I'll grab some Fanatec kit!

[SteveS 1,391]

I agree razorsimon, I love the quality & feel of the clubsport pedals & fanatec SQ shifter, I also highly recommend this solution. But we all need to start somewhere, before we get totally immersed.

 

We can read negative stuff about Fanatec or Thrustmaster, but I honestly cannot complain. I honestly think they both produce nicely engineered solutions.

 

I remember looking at all the great sim rigs when I started, thinking I will never be that involved! Thinking it's silly for a grown man to have a dedicated sim rig in a room! All I can say is once the hobby gets it's teeth into you, it starts costing you more every year. But going from zero to full speed requires a certain dedication.

 

The Scottish are like Yorkshiremen, we tend to be a little conservative when spending hard earned cash... so one step at a time is my advice.

 

When working with PC, its easy to mix & match hardware when you want to upgrade. i.e. G27 wheel base, custom rim, clubsport pedals, & clubsport sq or Thrustmaster shifter. Then at anytime upgrade the wheel base.

[The_Scotsman4 8]

I agree razorsimon, I love the quality & feel of the clubsport pedals & fanatec SQ shifter, I also highly recommend this solution. But we all need to start somewhere, before we get totally immersed.

 

We can read negative stuff about Fanatec or Thrustmaster, but I honestly cannot complain. I honestly think they both produce nicely engineered solutions.

 

I remember looking at all the great sim rigs when I started, thinking I will never be that involved! Thinking it's silly for a grown man to have a dedicated sim rig in a room! All I can say is once the hobby gets it's teeth into you, it starts costing you more every year. But going from zero to full speed requires a certain dedication.

 

The Scottish are like Yorkshiremen, we tend to be a little conservative when spending hard earned cash... so one step at a time is my advice.

 

When working with PC, its easy to mix & match hardware when you want to upgrade. i.e. G27 wheel base, custom rim, clubsport pedals, & clubsport sq or Thrustmaster shifter. Then at anytime upgrade the wheel base.

Haha yes us Scots are famous for tight wallets! As a recent college graduate, funds aren't as high as I'd like them to be so I've had to prioritise. One step at a  time will suit. Cheaper than trying to get some real life track experience at this point!

 

I've always been an Apple guy, but I have two old PowerPC G4's sitting in my apartment waiting to be made into dual boot Hackintosh G4's! I'm sure once I've got the PC build set up then the customisation will begin proper. 

 

I actually have an old Momo rim back home that is signed by Jackie Stewart; I'll need to have my parens ship it out to me!