Logitech responds to G27 / PS4 inquiries on twitter

[Darin Gangi 1,074]

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Logitech G‏@LogitechG

@djhazardous @WMDCars @realandytudor G27 requires a security chip for full functionality w/ PS4, and it does not have this chip. Sorry

 

https://twitter.com/LogitechG/statuses/496042493155094528

[Khyber 190]

blah blah blah... put a chip in a usb dongle and call it a day or better yet how about just recognize the wheel as a normal hid... silly corporations!

[Paradox 92]

That would defeat the purpose of having security in the first place. Consoles are a closed platform, always will be. Its nothing new. Thats why I switched to PC, there are no limits! 

[claykeedee 35]

blah blah blah... put a chip in a usb dongle and call it a day or better yet how about just recognize the wheel as a normal hid... silly corporations!

I think I suggested the exact same thing in the playstation forum. I like how we think

[Khyber 190]

That would defeat the purpose of having security in the first place. Consoles are a closed platform, always will be. Its nothing new. Thats why I switched to PC, there are no limits! 

 

but there are those of us who play all 3...so.... yeah

[Paradox 92]

I have some consoles too, but I stick to games best played with a gamepad when I use them. Most of the time these days they are used as Netflix boxes though

[BigJayA 195]

I have some consoles too, but I stick to games best played with a gamepad when I use them. Most of the time these days they are used as Netflix boxes though

It actually concerns me how little I'm using my Xbox One these days.....I'm really only keeping it for Forza 5!!!! And I'm playing that less and less....especially now I'm on triple screen and I have so much racing to do on my PC.....iRacing, GSC, Assetto.....and if I want a good arcade race I've got Grid Autosport, and the codies F1 titles!!

Single screen just doesn't cut it anymore.....I'm totally spoilt!,

I hear what you say about 'Netflix' boxes though!! I'm the same!!!

As far as the wheel discussion though......it's only a matter of time before somebody gets round it!!

[claykeedee 35]

Introducing the BigJay A-Force 900 FFB wheel !

[antonpaco 0]

Guys I have taken my decision, I am tired of Sony and all the stupid things they do, I will buy a pc and keep playing with my wonderful G27.

[pattielipp 1]

There is no chip... How do I know this? Take your ps4 and download warthunder. Select the controller setup.. With your wheel plugged in, use it...

Using this method untested my g27 and everything was configurable except the shifter its self and the d-pad. Every single button, the paddles, the wheel its self and the pedals are all fully functional. Also, the wheel lock was active after configuration at about the 270 degree mark.

Sorry for bumping an old thread but the truth needs to be spread. Others have tried the granturismo gt wheel from the ps3 with similar results.

[claykeedee 35]

I'm actually interested on Darin's take about what you just said pattie because I'd heard that rumor before but not had it confirmed by anyone in the sim racing community. Also welcome to the forums.

[Khyber 190]

it's already been explained why that scenario works on war thunder

 

but for wheels..yes there is a chip and a security check...this is also known...as fanatec has even said so because they have put the chip in the rim for v2 to get ps4 support and logitech said they wouldn't add a chip for g27. they are done with consoles

[claykeedee 35]

Where was it confirmed that Fanatec signed the deal with Sony and not Microsoft? I thought it was still up in the air regarding which console Fanatec is bringing the V2 to?

[Khyber 190]

they said when v2 was announced one deal was signed other they are working on... but it's not like it won't happen. csw hub has ps buttons on it

[pattielipp 1]

Cliff notes: Chip validation used for XMB only, not while in games

device times out after 8 minutes in XMB but not in games

Immersion Touch sense is the same technology used for T100 and G27

Patent Infringement with Sony and Immersion

Warthunder includes HID drivers allowing any input device

licensing held by console, game or device developer

 

 

 

It is my understanding that the Chip is used by the System to verify that the device is an official Sony product/is digitally signed and compatible with the system. Also, the chip allows for additional features normally found on the controllers, such as option, share, touchpad, or the PS button. However, this does not mean things will not work with the system as shown with the G27. What is limited is the "Official" support from sony as well as the built in drivers and the ability to use the controls in the XMB for native navigation and the patented features of Sony. Think about the PS3 and the knockoff DS3 controllers that were released early on. There was a firmware update that was released that validated the authenticity of the controller and deemed these knockoffs unworthy because they were not official even though they walked like a duck, talked like a duck, and even looked like a duck... but it was still a swan. Forgive the terrible metaphor, but in order to include sonys technology and be deemed "Official" it would have to get their blessing. Think about the DFGT with the start, stop and PS button.. or the T80 with the share, options and PS button. In order to get system access you must have the chip.

Furthermore, If my memory serves me correct, The PS4 validates the device every X amount of seconds/minutes. While in the XMB, if the device does not have the chip or means to validate then after X amount of minutes the device becomes inoperable. This is explained some where on the Skullgirls website.

The Caveat to all of this is not the chip, rather the licensing. If we look at the Thrustmaster devices, there is no way they all have a chip that is required by the PS4 because upon their release there was no PS4..... But they work? THIS is mere speculation from those discussing the issue at hand, but i/we believe there is a "white list" allowing specific devices, if they match a specific digital signature on whatever chip they possess(think about the chip that tells a computer what the device is and what drivers it needs, etc. It has a device ID somewhere). 

The next question at hand is why does it work with Warthunder? sony allows the inclusion of device drivers internal to games being released. also, the same checks for this digital signature are no longer active(why, i don't know but as originally stated, the XMB will stop talking to a device after 8 minutes when no signature/validation is received, however in warthunder this original limit is removed and it has been shown, inlcuding myself, that the device continues to work regardless of how long). So, If Warthunder included a basic HID compliant driver, just about anything should work and be seen if it has inputs written in the driver.. This explains why all functions of the g27 work except for the H shifter and the FFB not sure about the D-pad though; Also, On Neogaf, Someone took the Guitar hero guitar and did the same test in Warthunder with the same outcome. He stated every input worked from the neck buttons to the whammy bar, to the motion sensor in the guitar itself(http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=872483).

What about Driveclub? The inclusion of the drivers to operate the g27 are up in the air. It could be sony/the devs blacklist everything that isn't signed by thrustmaster... Or it could just check the device ID and assign whatever drivers are necessary. If the later is true then we may be in for a surprise.. The drivers to control the FFB for the g27 are made by the company Imersion and is known as Touch sense.. The funny thing is the new T100 shares these same drivers as the g27. (http://www.immersion.com/products/touchsense-force-feedback/index.html). The difference here comes in licensing. In previous generations sony/logitec licensed the software/drivers and made them available to developers, thus the reason the G27 was a valid solution in every racing game on the ps2/ps3.. However, there was a quarrel of some sort between sony, logitec and immersion a few years back ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immersion_v._Sony ). 

This leads to the last point. The licensing, which I believe is the main reason the G27 is no longer supported. The licensing comes down on one of the three parties, The console developer, the Game developer or the Hardware developer. In the case of the PS1, PS2 and PS3, the license was held but later was lost and not transfered from console to console so the lawsuit stated above was placed, thus the reason the DS3 became the 6-axis without rumble capabilities and sony patented it's own technology for the DS4. In the case of driveclub and the T100, the licensing is either under thrustmaster or the game developer. With the G27 and logitec, Logitec has made the statement that it is planning/has gotten out of the console gaming industry, so that leaves the drivers and licensing required to be incorperated by either Sony or the game developers. Obviously, because sony had issues with Imersion and they no longer want to pay for licensing(they filed their own patents for the technology in the DS4) it now comes down to the game developers... Will they incorporate the required into their finished product? Only time will tell.

[Khyber 190]

[pattielipp 1]

blah blah blah... put a chip in a usb dongle and call it a day or better yet how about just recognize the wheel as a normal hid... silly corporations!

http://www.consoletuner.com/products/titan-one/

 

Titan one by Console tuner...  Uses a computer and the validation of the PS4 controller to map the buttons of any device as seen fit by the user.

 

A little bit to much setup and hands on than I feel like doing but for 60$ it isn't so bad for someone to try.