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Episode 73 - Forza Past, Present and Future - Plei Chair

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I wish you got more in-depth about the physics(the most important part).It seems like you added things like the lack of rules as part of the physics,maybe you need a new ratings category.

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Darin,

I'm a fan of the show, but I do have some constructive criticism for you.

In regards to Forza 3, the original review of the game doesn't come across as a review. It comes across as a love letter to Forza 3. After your most recent episode, you guys admitted that you had not played all of Forza's modes. This is evident in that you didn't discuss the money glitch it had before the first patch, or the AWD vs RWD drive problems it still has.

Then, after spending quite a bit of time with iRacing, you gave it such a highly scrutinized review that you actually have it scored lower than Forza 3. Even though many people think iRacing is the best sim around today.

I think you have two issues that need to be corrected for the sake of your show.

1. You need to do a thorough testing of all games/sims that you review. Otherwise your evaluations come across as misinformed and wrong.

2. As someone else earlier suggested on this post, you need to classify games/sims into different groups. For example:

Strictly Sim

Some Sim/Some Arcade

Strictly Arcade

I appreciate the work you guys do, but please consider my feedback. I think it will greatly help your show.

Hi and thanks for the post..

I went back and watched the Forza review and yes it sounded like a love letter to Turn 10, because.. we love the game.. There's not a racing game / sim, etc that hasn't had some flaws and needed patching after getting to the masses. At some point during that review (I couldn't find it cause it's so long ;-) ) we say we would revisit Forza 3 and that our scores may be a little high. Also, considering it came out a year ago, it's still a great title.. I raced it yesterday as a matter of fact and had fun.

How did it outscore iRacing ? Graphics, sounds, damage.. Which is why we started a sim index a while back, but never really followed through with having it posted here on the site. iRacing outscored it as a sim though.

Anyway.. All subjective and our opinions which seem to evolve over time as well as new things come out. No clue about a money glitch and the others.. We don't try to exploit the game, just drive it like a sim. If it drives well and we can have some fun racing, then it can usually score well.

I agree about the three categories as well.. Matter of fact we talk about it on Ep 75.

I also am seriously thinking about Defcons comments and just throwing out all the numbers and giving our overall score.. Then we can post the full score sheet here at the site. Or maybe just a rev scale for everything..

What do you guys think ?

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I also like the Pros and Con idea with maybe a Revs score ??

I agree we tend to over complicate a bit, but we want to go more in depth than any of the other gaming sites out there.

I think we can do so without having to talk numbers.

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I don't want you to think your work on providing the score categories is a waste of time, I do take a look to know what to expect ("ok, low score in FFB, I won't expect too much"). For the all-important buy it/don't buy decision, I go with your impressions.

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Interesting comments about the ratings.

I do think that one approach is to lay out what the goals of the designer is (so you can decide if that' matches what you're looking for) and weighing the different aspect of the game/sim based on the goals and laying out strengths and weaknesses. This I believe will provide what the viewers need...no numbers required. For example, eye catching visuals is a more important goal of the designers of Forza/GT5 than iRacing, while the iRacing folks probably put more emphasis on physics. F1 2010's main goal is simulating an F1 season and the "life" (for lack of a better word) of F1 while iRacing is more focused on multiplayer head-to-head racing against other folks with strict rules. Then it's easy for a viewer to judge if the product is what they're looking for and how well it performs it's intended tasks. For example, Need for Speed will fill what my 11 year old Nephew is looking for but he'd get frustrated possibly with a pure sim. Thus, Good or Bad is a function of how well the intended goals are met. (And of course if a game/sim is all over the place and does nothing especially well....that's important to know too.)

Hope this makes sense.

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Interesting comments about the ratings.

I do think that one approach is to lay out what the goals of the designer is (so you can decide if that' matches what you're looking for) and weighing the different aspect of the game/sim based on the goals and laying out strengths and weaknesses. This I believe will provide what the viewers need...no numbers required. For example, eye catching visuals is a more important goal of the designers of Forza/GT5 than iRacing, while the iRacing folks probably put more emphasis on physics. F1 2010's main goal is simulating an F1 season and the "life" (for lack of a better word) of F1 while iRacing is more focused on multiplayer head-to-head racing against other folks with strict rules. Then it's easy for a viewer to judge if the product is what they're looking for and how well it performs it's intended tasks. For example, Need for Speed will fill what my 11 year old Nephew is looking for but he'd get frustrated possibly with a pure sim. Thus, Good or Bad is a function of how well the intended goals are met. (And of course if a game/sim is all over the place and does nothing especially well....that's important to know too.)

Hope this makes sense.

Great posts Cep and Def :-)

Yes it made a lot of sense and gave me an idea.. Like for our F1 2010, we'll focus on living the life. We already know it's not going to be a sim.. But it's going to be gorgeous and give us the ability to be an F1 star.

For WRC, we'll focus on making it through the career, how it compares to Richard Burns, etc..

I also think we'll show the scores, but not go over them in detail.. It helps us with comparisons.

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I also like the Pros and Con idea with maybe a Revs score ??

I vote for pros/cons list (in a simulation way), like you did with the SBKX review.

People will see where is what they like (or don't care) in a game.

And with that It's easy to put the game in one of the 3 categories.

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I still play forza and still enjoy it but it's not all it could be.

Some small and some big things let it down.

As a painter in forza 2 I was really looking forward to 3 but the lighting in the shop is shite to the point of needing night vision goggles to paint the rear bumper, I do very little painting now compared to 2. There are other paint issues but I will not bore you with them.

The hoppers, sigh enough said on that.

The bits of track that are like jam. One wheel go's on your car go's from 120mph to 3mph in one foot and the rest of the pack hits you and each other, slipstream and get a dirty lap gets old and other silly things but all the silly things take the shine of it a little.

The main problem is just t10 attitude the whole VIP issue I for one will not buy another LCE from t10 got ripped right off with this one, once bitten and all. T10 just saying it's great, nothing is wrong, if you think there is do not say it on our forum under threat of a ban !

Then we have the dlc do they ask the people who buy and play their game ?..... NO they ask everyone but the players, they just churn out jelly mold cars, screw more audis give us more classics. rs1600, capris old minis some fun stuff. All the dlc missed the mark. The one that was looking good was the jolopnik one but then a bit of a fix took place and golden tickets were added car that did not make the cut in the first round were just now in mysteriously and others who had earned there place dropped.

Things like that do not wash well

Will I buy f4 probs not TBH, I do not like to think so one had one over on me and I think t10 basically stuck two fingers up to the old forza fans/players with f3 and flat out ignored their feedback. NOTHING was wrong in t10 eyes, with the new lean toward kinet I think it will be even less sim more Mario cart.

I really do think t10 have not done themselves any favours with the stunts they have pulled, listen not to your customers at your peril.

Now this chair thingy if it was priced at £100 I could see some people being into it but at that price WOW. TBH I dont like it, it looks like some £20 ikea job with an extra bar for a wheel to bolt to.

Think of this your talking to your m8 and tell him of your new racing/gaming chair so he pops in for a go and...... you lead him to that :shock::lol::roll: leaving you :cry::oops: then you have to tell him how much you paid for it :shock::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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good episode!

Man, I would love to get an Xbox360 to play the Forza series. However, I already have 2 Logitech wheels and from what I have read they do not work iwith the Xbox! C'mon MS! get it together and support Logitech wheels!

:)

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