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Episode 69 - F1 2010 E3 Special Report

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There is a lot of argument between arcade and sim ,however i think that people may have gotten mixed up in the differences or at least i have a slightly different approach to the question.

I think you have a different approach :)

The obsession seems to be whether you can categorise a game as a sim or arcade, but when discussing F1 2010 I think the key issue is not whether its a simulator but how good an F1 simulator it is, as thats what its being sold as, and what people will buy it as. If a game is intended to be an F1 simulator it should try to simulate all aspects of F1 as far as is practicable or as far as the developers choose. So a game with racing cars with tank turrets may be a sim in your eyes but its not an F1 sim. Same with rules - to be an F1 sim you can't ignore F1 rules. Weather may not be vital for a game to be considered a sim, but it is an important factor in F1 races and its inclusion makes F1-2010 a better F1 simulator.

So, LFS may be a fine simulator, but its not a good F1 simulator, because it doesn't simulate an F1 season. IRacing is of course a great simulator, but I would also suggest that when the Williams comes out, it won't be a great F1 simulator, again because it doesn't simulate an F1 season.

If you are looking for the ultimate driving simulator, I doubt F1 2010 will be it. If on the other hand you want the ultimate F1 2010 season simulator, then I think Codies game is looking promising.

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David while i admit the tank was an extreme example It might be easier to break apart the 2 elements into engine and rules

Is the engine at heart a physics engine based on available real world data (yet to be confirmed as yes no kinda)

Does he game follow the rules of the particular sport (confirmed as no ,devs picked whats they thought were the best of the rules)

Then people can decide which part of the sim is the most important to them ,my point is that without the first part being in the game any further questions on it are moot .

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Interesting discussion. There is a difference between simulating the driving aspect and simulating the "F1 Experience" for lack of a better word. That doesn't just include making sure the rules/proceedures are programmed to match that of the series but if you're getting into career mode, what *other* things does a driver have to do as part of their job. For example, NASCAR drivers are involved a lot with what they call "activation"...that is doing various things for their sponsors. I'm not quite sure how one would simulate that to make good gameplay but I've played things such as "Football Manager" where you have stuff such as News conferences and I believe there is going to be something like that in F1 2010. I will say that iRacing will probably simulate driving the F1 car and tracks better than codemasters but F1 2010 will probably do the other stuff better.

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Interesting discussion. There is a difference between simulating the driving aspect and simulating the "F1 Experience" for lack of a better word. That doesn't just include making sure the rules/proceedures are programmed to match that of the series but if you're getting into career mode, what *other* things does a driver have to do as part of their job. For example, NASCAR drivers are involved a lot with what they call "activation"...that is doing various things for their sponsors. I'm not quite sure how one would simulate that to make good gameplay but I've played things such as "Football Manager" where you have stuff such as News conferences and I believe there is going to be something like that in F1 2010. I will say that iRacing will probably simulate driving the F1 car and tracks better than codemasters but F1 2010 will probably do the other stuff better.

I think F1 2010 will do quite a lot of things better than iRacing when it comes to simulating an F1 season - indeed you can't simulate a real F1 season with iRacing. F1 2010 will simulate all the tracks - how many F1 tracks are in iRacing? It will simulate all the teams, it will simulate variable weather, it will simulate marbles, and it will simulate many of the series rules such as mandatory tyre type changes.

Of course, iRacing will also be better in a number of areas, but to assume that F1 2010 is only better in the "live the life" aspect would be very wide of the mark. And comparing the two is a bit like comparing apples and oranges - iRacing is a multi-player only game while F1 2010 is primarily a single player game.

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Excellent points David. You're absolutely right about tracks....they are much more limited than a F1 will have...which will have all the F1 tracks *and cars* in the 2010 season. That actually points out one of the big negatives of iRacing, limited tracks/cars and each one you want costs $$. Furthermore, as you pointed out there is no weather in iRacing (very much a factor in F1 and will be in F1) or nighttime races (even though that's common in Nascar.) I was thinking about the driving physics and track modeling as to the specifics of scanning. I think that is probably the best out there in iRacing. Oh, one other thing that iRacing has not gotten yet (but is getting) is transmission models. You really have to hose to to blow a transmission in iRacing...much easier to do in rFactor. I'm not sure what they're doing in F1. Finally, yes, iRacing is strictly multiplayer ... F1 2010 and sims like SBK X have robust single player modes including career. I really enjoy that aspect of things.

I think F1 2010 will do quite a lot of things better than iRacing when it comes to simulating an F1 season - indeed you can't simulate a real F1 season with iRacing. F1 2010 will simulate all the tracks - how many F1 tracks are in iRacing? It will simulate all the teams, it will simulate variable weather, it will simulate marbles, and it will simulate many of the series rules such as mandatory tyre type changes.

Of course, iRacing will also be better in a number of areas, but to assume that F1 2010 is only better in the "live the life" aspect would be very wide of the mark. And comparing the two is a bit like comparing apples and oranges - iRacing is a multi-player only game while F1 2010 is primarily a single player game.

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So seeing as its impossible to get an answer on how good(realistic) bad indifferent the cars handle compared to the real or even other racing games ones do ye think that ye will do a follow on the final build of this game.

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So seeing as its impossible to get an answer on how good(realistic) bad indifferent the cars handle compared to the real or even other racing games ones do ye think that ye will do a follow on the final build of this game.

Sorry dog.. Not impossible.. I just missed your question..

We really can't give you a fair comparison until we do get the next build in or hands.. I haven't heard form Codies lately, so I'm not sure when we'll get our copy or for which platform.

We will definitely cover the final build in detail !

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Hoping that ye just buy a retail copy and review based on that.

Also hope that maybe ye can test on a variety of wheels and that maybe ye can get the answer to that age old question ,what are exactly the driver settings for each wheel that they based their ffb on .ie logitech profiler

Actually this might be an idea for any of the mods and other games that ye review as ffb can be subjective and the only way to know how the original creator meant his or her game or mod to be felt is to use the settings they used,after that a user can adjust to suit themselves.Makes the review much less subjective.

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Let's give the guys here a braek. if they did everything people ask them to on a review it would be some four hour movie.

We all like different things and games, no two people are ever really going to see 100% eye to eye on a game, seat or wheel. The team are giving their opinion on things, they also have to think about the viewers. Not everyone has the money to spend big on things. The isr team get the best of the best sent to them and some low end stuff, they have to strike a balance for all the viewers.

I am not saying don't make suggestions but just think of the tone some of you use, it's starting to get a little rude.

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Wasnt meant in any way to be rude just trying to point out a way so that everyone can setup the same ,base it like an experiment and then bring in opinions.

If any of the team here felt insulted by my suggestion i do apologize in advance of ye saying so.

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Was not aimed at you dog just a general observation on a vibe that seems to be about on here of late. You was just unlucky your post was last ;)

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Was not aimed at you dog just a general observation on a vibe that seems to be about on here of late. You was just unlucky your post was last ;)

Thanks for defending us Papa.. It's cool bud.. No offense taken here.. Heck our forums are a breath of fresh air compared to the You Tube comments.

We also welcome suggestions and criticism as long as it's constructive.

To dogs suggestion.. We're actually going to do just that for WRC and all the new titles.. We're going to try and do more tech stuff versus.. "hey look at the pretty graphics" ;-)

We're going to look into doing a special on our settings and then having them posted here at the site for all to see.

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Excellent! While this product hasn't been heavily on my radar it's the technical side that will get my attention.

To dogs suggestion.. We're actually going to do just that for WRC and all the new titles.. We're going to try and do more tech stuff versus.. "hey look at the pretty graphics" ;-)

We're going to look into doing a special on our settings and then having them posted here at the site for all to see.

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hi all ,being a f1 fan im 99% looking forward to codemasters f1 2010 ,im hoping the handling will be ok ( i liked the feel and control you had in dirt 2 but hated grid ) but one thing that concerns me is the FOV and could it be adjusted . being a pc racer i suppose im a bit spoilt with so many great driving games and mods for them , but one thing i have to do myself is adjust the FOV to get it right for me as i always use the cockpit view and i do remember on a previous show shaun said exactly the same ,just in videos i seen it looks a little low and you see too much of the wheel and cockpit , just asking for a favour when you get to preview this game again could you let us know your opinions ! if you like it ? or can it be adjusted ?, i did post a question about this on codmasters f1 2010 forum but was shot down in flames .

im pleased to join the forums , been watching the show and every show for a long time now , i love it ,

and do you guys realise how lucky you are ? trying all the superb gear you review .

anyway very pleased to join up ,

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hi all ,being a f1 fan im 99% looking forward to codemasters f1 2010 ,im hoping the handling will be ok ( i liked the feel and control you had in dirt 2 but hated grid ) but one thing that concerns me is the FOV and could it be adjusted . being a pc racer i suppose im a bit spoilt with so many great driving games and mods for them , but one thing i have to do myself is adjust the FOV to get it right for me as i always use the cockpit view and i do remember on a previous show shaun said exactly the same ,just in videos i seen it looks a little low and you see too much of the wheel and cockpit , just asking for a favour when you get to preview this game again could you let us know your opinions ! if you like it ? or can it be adjusted ?, i did post a question about this on codmasters f1 2010 forum but was shot down in flames .

im pleased to join the forums , been watching the show and every show for a long time now , i love it ,

and do you guys realise how lucky you are ? trying all the superb gear you review .

anyway very pleased to join up ,

I don't know if it would be adjusted, and to be honest, I don't think so, since that is pretty much what the real drivers see when they are inside the car, but for the sake of us not F1 drivers, I do hope so hehe

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hi , as you said i dont think so , but as you i hope so too , it would be a great addition ! exciting times ahead really looking forward to f1 2010 and rfactor 2 , then theres gtr3 and dirt 3 . next few years looking great for racers.

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Hei,

just a moment ago I had another interview with Stephen and Paul from Codemasters here at GamesCom 2010 in Cologne, Germany. I tried to catch up on most of the questions you guys had, particularly


  • [*:2i2dzc64]comparison of PC vs console version
    [*:2i2dzc64]calculated vs. pre-defined physics
    [*:2i2dzc64]steering wheel models
    [*:2i2dzc64]FOV

Also we talked about driver's AI, some game mechanics and the latest additions they made in terms of physics. All in all, it was a lot of fun and I hope you guys will like it.

Andreas

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Hei,

just a moment ago I had another interview with Stephen and Paul from Codemasters here at GamesCom 2010 in Cologne, Germany. I tried to catch up on most of the questions you guys had, particularly


  • [*:1jeqq57e]comparison of PC vs console version
    [*:1jeqq57e]calculated vs. pre-defined physics
    [*:1jeqq57e]steering wheel models
    [*:1jeqq57e]FOV

Also we talked about driver's AI, some game mechanics and the latest additions they made in terms of physics. All in all, it was a lot of fun and I hope you guys will like it.

Andreas

Thanks for the info adreas. Ummm, well, what did they say? Link to interview?

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[*]calculated vs. pre-defined physics

What on earth does this mean? In my experience all physics engines use both calculations and pre-defined physics.

Do you mean physical/brush type tyre model vs empirical/Pacejka type tyre model?

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So i guess to sum this question up does the Codemasters F1 game have a real world physics engine(within hardware limitation)at its heart or not or is it all visual,Man made rule

That's what I tried to find out.

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Andreas

Is this part of Inside Sim Racing interview or somewhere else

seeing other vids and reading their forums lots of other questions are coming up

Tire vid they posted has most saying it is deforming in the wrong direction

If this is true and animation is tied to physics something seriously wrong

Questions about it not answered on their forums

Damage seriously cut down from original statement earlier in the year

and huge speed needed to inflict small damage at least visually now

"Damage

Codemasters have promised the most sophisticated damage model in gaming history, and the early signs are promising. Debris really does shatter into thousands of pieces, and running over debris in the game will give you a puncture, forcing you to nurse the car back to the pits.

If you have a low-speed crash at, say Monaco the tyre will remain attached to the car by a wheel tether, but if the crash is at high-speed, the tyre will be separated from the car. The damage model has been based upon the visual explosion that was Robert Kubica horrific crash in Canada, 2007.

Codemasters studied over 500 pictures of that one crash and saw how the pieces of the car would separate from a different area of the car, and the huge crash at the start of the 2009 Spanish Grand Prix was also studied for how the carbon fibre did literally explode on that occasion.

Drivers will be able to turn the damage off, or have it at varying velocities, ranging from 5% all the way to the brutal 100%. Mistakes will not be tolerated."

from http://michaelgriffinonf1.wordpress.com/

and then post on forums in may that car can be damaged so only safety cell left

compared to what was seen in Gamescon which they say is now final damage

No idea if parts from crashed cars can cause damage to cars coming from behind ?

Penalty system seems arbitrary at times.

Worth checking their forums for questions to ask

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and now no directx 11

Funny how it comes across in ep 65 with Jessica at around 15.10 mins

Says that pc will have dx11 graphics .

at release no dX 11...it will come across later as a patch.

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