Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

Episode 69 - F1 2010 E3 Special Report

58 posts in this topic

Here's our first of four E3 special reports. This one is exclusively about F1 2010 by Codemasters. They invited us to a private demo and while we were there, I interviewed Paul Jeal and Stephen Hood and asked all the questions you've hopefully wanted answered. You can call this Dev Diary # 3.5 ..

E3 Special report #2 is on GT5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Great interview with Steve and Paul, glad they had enough time to sit down with you guys and go in-depth about the game.

So from what I heard from the Codies, it sounds like physics are sort of following the philosophy of Forza, where it is sim-like but accessible to more casual gamers?

Also, do you think this game can compete with that classic Formula 1 Championship Edition?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Very cool!!! I just put a pre-order on this one. This will be my treat tomorrow morning when I work out (I save ISR for my morning workouts as a special "treat"....makes it go fast!!)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Awesome interview. Those guys were incredibly open with you, and they seemed to have the right answers, especially considering FFB and tire deformation.

One thing I am curious about is performance differences between consoles, and the pc system requirements. I assume, with the graphics have such high quality rain and lighting, the game is running about 30fps on both consoles? My pc is aging and I will likely have to spring for the ps3 version.

I am for sure buying this one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes, great interview!! The game looks amazing!! I also think the "career mode" adds an additional element. I'll have to listen to the audio again as due to the volume level difference between you and the guys from codemasters, their accents and my weak hearing I didn't catch everything they said. I do have essentially the same question as the previous poster. I pre-ordered for the PS3 but is the PC version a better choice? If the cable I ordered to get the PS3 graphics on my PC monitor works as well as I hope I should be able to use my good wheel and pod with both.

Thanks again!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, great interview!! The game looks amazing!! I also think the "career mode" adds an additional element. I'll have to listen to the audio again as due to the volume level difference between you and the guys from codemasters, their accents and my weak hearing I didn't catch everything they said. I do have essentially the same question as the previous poster. I pre-ordered for the PS3 but is the PC version a better choice? If the cable I ordered to get the PS3 graphics on my PC monitor works as well as I hope I should be able to use my good wheel and pod with both.

Thanks again!

PC will offer a little more confirgurability in regards to graphics and controls (separate controllers). THey will essentially be the same game though. Ps3 version will kick ass !

Thanks for the compliments on the show ! We really had a great time meeting those guys and doing the interview. I now have three new friends in the industry.. Paul, Stephen and Andy.

Darin

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Codemaster is heading in the right direction as making more of a race sim than a car sim like in Dirt 2. I really don't care if F1 2010 have the most realistic physics or not as this will only show me what I already knew, I can't really drive a F1 car which takes years of experience to race them. I'm glad it will have more forgiving physics than Iracing. I want to experience F1 racing without spending months or years learning how to race them.

Now Iracing is a great sim yet It doesn't take long to realize you have to spend a lot of time practicing and racing to have any chance of winning a race. My thin g is i like to race different sim (Dirt2) as well as other PC games. I will be playing both F1 2010 and Civ5 this fall.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're very welcome Darin!! It looks like you guys had a awesome time at E3. I DVR'd all the G4 coverage and am slowly working my way though it...lots of good things coming this year!!

Okie...you have some excellent points! I love the realism of iRacing but it does get frustrating sometimes having to spend hours practicing just to feel you *can* race...I don't even think about winning at this stage. I've come up to speed much more quickly on ovals as it's a much simpler pattern to learn and I seem to do better at avoiding traffic than learning a dozen corners at once (ie. road.) I keep at it as I'm sort of hooked on the challenge of some day "getting it." I try to think of it like martial arts....you go in knowing it's a long time to a black belt (at any "real" school) but it's the journey. Unlike Madden (which frustrated the *heck* out of me) I actually see improvement with practice :-) Truth is, there are a lot of folks with a lot of sim and real experience racing that I'll never match.

As for F1 2010...between that at GT5 I'm looking forward to a lot of car goodness!! Civ 5 sounds cool too. I like the civ games and one of my xbox friends (who I also know in real life) is a huge fan. Oh, funny story. Years ago when I was playing Civ 3 and on their boards, there was an actual British MP who was on the boards and played..though that was very cool!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

WOW guys....

I didn't know that driving the cars in iracing was that difficult. I've never played it before, so I can't say first hand, but this is the first time I've heard about it being very difficult to control. I love the idea of being able to race open wheelers in iRacing, but if it's as hard as you guys say I might have to think twice about trying it, and focus only on F1 2010 instead. I am a super n00bie to sims afterall, and play a lot of arcade racers still.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What I would say isamu is I'm relatively new to sim racing so I may not be the best judge. If you're an experienced sim racer you would probably find it a lot easier. Darin or Shaun are probably better judges on how difficult it would be for an experienced sim racer vs. other sims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
WOW guys....

I didn't know that driving the cars in iracing was that difficult. I've never played it before, so I can't say first hand, but this is the first time I've heard about it being very difficult to control. I love the idea of being able to race open wheelers in iRacing, but if it's as hard as you guys say I might have to think twice about trying it, and focus only on F1 2010 instead. I am a super n00bie to sims afterall, and play a lot of arcade racers still.

If you try to jump in a race in Iracing like you do with arcade racing games than expect to become a "crash dummy".

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

great show, guys and gal!

I echo the comments about looking forward to this F1 2010 game. I hope it leans more towards the sim side than arcade side.

I am looking forward to your GT5 special report.

please have a good weekend!

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Darin, great show! Seems a lot here are glad at the "forgiving physics" so that we can play/drive and not spend all the time just learning to drive (like in F1CE). I think during the show it was mentioned that the game was about an 8 between arcade-sim. What would that compare to; for instance, where is NFS Shift on that type scale?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hey Darin, great show! Seems a lot here are glad at the "forgiving physics" so that we can play/drive and not spend all the time just learning to drive (like in F1CE). I think during the show it was mentioned that the game was about an 8 between arcade-sim. What would that compare to; for instance, where is NFS Shift on that type scale?

I'd put Shift at about a 7.. maybe with the PC mods, etc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hope Codie's fix the generic steering wheel on the cars. Most F1 teams have unique steering wheels and the Redbull shift indicator lights are actually on the dash (?) and not on the wheel. So far every vid I seen on TV or YouTube of F1 2010 showed a generic wheel for all the cars. Come on, they have the F1 licence and they can not make unique steering wheels :?: . Maybe just too lazy to make unique cockpit interiors (not much to see except the wheels) for each car and just made a one size fits all wheel :roll: . I hope its only a place holder since they are showing 09 cars till more realistic steering wheels are finished for the 2010 cars that will be released with the game :? .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They already said that there will only be maybe 2 or 3 different wheels. They were limited by time on what they could achieve for this year version. It takes a lot of time to model each wheel and then do the different hands animations for each ones. Don't forget that unlike most of the games the hands actually move freely around the steering. They don't always grip it the same way and will move from time to time. They also animated the hands playing with the buttons when you change settings. And the shifting animations too obviously.

All those things takes time to make and considering the limited amount of time they have to make the game, I prefer them spending more time on the more important stuff anyway.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
They already said that there will only be maybe 2 or 3 different wheels. They were limited by time on what they could achieve for this year version. It takes a lot of time to model each wheel and then do the different hands animations for each ones. Don't forget that unlike most of the games the hands actually move freely around the steering. They don't always grip it the same way and will move from time to time. They also animated the hands playing with the buttons when you change settings. And the shifting animations too obviously.

All those things takes time to make and considering the limited amount of time they have to make the game, I prefer them spending more time on the more important stuff anyway.

Well if that is the case then I am very disappointed since as a sim racer what I see the most is the steering wheel. Along with the not 100% sim physics it def looks more and more like a console port and the PC was an afterthought. Hope I am wrong. Most of the rFactor mod'r can get unique wheels done for their F1 mods on their limited man power and budget...but Codie's can't :?: . Yes animated fingers is a nice touch, but I would rather have the correct wheel and just leave it with moving arms. I don't need the fingers adjusting the buttons. Also if they are aiming at the console market, most of the console players using a pad would prob drive in 3rd person anyway so will never see the wheel.

SO if they are making animated hands/fingers, does that mean that all the buttons are active for the wheel and user controlled as noted by you. If not then a total waste IMO.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course it's a console game. Cody want to sell copies and they won't if they go full sim. If having a logo on a steering wheel a dealbraker for you maybe you need to change your priorities... :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Of course it's a console game. Cody want to sell copies and they won't if they go full sim. If having a logo on a steering wheel a dealbraker for you maybe you need to change your priorities... :roll:

Its not the logo... :roll: . Its that each F1 car has a unique wheel in most cases and some are real works of art. If you are suppose to be the official F1 game then do a correct wheel for each car. If they want to give you that F1 driver experience other then just the life, then make the cars realistic to look at also. Take at a look at the rFactor FSONE 09 cars, each has unique steering wheel. I have my priority straight. I can live with the dumb down physics for game play, but if you are the official F1 game maker you better get the graphics right.

Here are three examples I found on youtube of FSPONE 09 with unique steering wheels. Not my own vids, but will illustrate what I am getting at. Immersion :!: .

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Here are three examples I found on youtube of FSPONE 09 with unique steering wheels. Not my own vids, but will illustrate what I am getting at. Immersion :!: .

These are all T cam views. Driving from cockpit view you lose the immersion IMO through the lack of any animated driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNt_MsMyRw

We all have different priorities but I'm pretty sure for my priorities (as an offline player) F1-2010 as a package will easily beat FSONE 2009 and I think rF2 will have its work cut out to match it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are all T cam views. Driving from cockpit view you lose the immersion IMO through the lack of any animated driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryNt_MsMyRw

We all have different priorities but I'm pretty sure for my priorities (as an offline player) F1-2010 as a package will easily beat FSONE 2009 and I think rF2 will have its work cut out to match it.

You have ani arms in FSONE 09 cockpit view (1st third of the vid), here is my early test with all default setup. FOV and steering ratio are not correct for arms in this vid but can be fixed. You have the option to remove driver and ani arms in the menu. With other exterior views you can see the driver move around corresponding with the car movement. Some pple remove them to keep frame rates higher on lower end systems or they just do not like them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For me, the wheel doesn't matter.. I honestly don't like seeing a second set of hands doing what my hands are already doing on my steering wheel. Whenever I can, I turn that feature off and I have a feeling to run cockpit view on F1 2010, I have to look at that. .

I feel less immersed when I see a fake steering wheel and hands moving.. Makes me feel like I'm driving a drone or RC car.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If the wheel is 1:1 with my own hand/wheel movement, I like it. If it's not, or it's laggy compared to the input, which is usually the case, I lower my monitor just a bit and have my wheel block some. That's often the more proper position anyway.

I don't care for iRacing's method of leaving the stump of a steering column though, I'd rather have nothing there at all. The oddly amputated column is almost as distracting somehow.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it probably depends on your racing setup. I use a standard PC desk and my wheel is not in my line of sight when looking at the monitor. Driving without an on-screen wheel looks all wrong in this situation. Plus my G25 is the wheel which looks "fake" - it's nothing like the steering wheels of the cars I drive in sims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@simracingtonight ,can you clarify on ffb and maybe point to what it would feel similar to on rfactor or gtr2,the reason im asking is i reinstalled dirt2 on the pc tonight and i have a g27 and there is something terribly wrong with the feedback,even with environmental settings turned off and overall forces down its not possible to feel the front wheels(weight direction)accurately or the suspension movement on the front of the car(unless in a jump),im coming from settings like realfeel,feels real to me and leo settings on rfactor and gtr2 and race series,its also the only racing game that causes the g27 to create such a loud racket,ffb on dirt 2 feels more like settings of the xbox360 controller ported over to the wheel rather than custom made for the wheel.

Im assuming that ye will be doing a follow up closer or on release and one question with regards to the ffb on all pc wheels would be what settings were used in the drivers(logitech control panel etc) as the base that they tuned the ffb on.

Im sure you know of the different opinions on this in the racing games we have.

While i realise that ye quite like the fanatec wheel here i feel that to use the Turbo S on pc may not give an accurate picture of how good or bad the ffb is on pc as it has been designed specially to xbox type ffb as well as pc but its hard to know which it uses in a particular game that uses the xbox as the main platform.However any of their other dedicated pc wheels would be good.

Ive nothing against the company but a lot of people are going to be wooed by these graphics and may go and buy a wheel to play it with so as long as a number of wheels are tested with the game we should get a better picture of whether the devs put in any work for the people not playing with a controller.

I hope there are no misunderstanding about the point im trying to get across

Trying to get answers on their forums is like trying to get blood from a stone unless its about how great their graphics are(Ill admit they look stunning)

Now for the next question i hope you will follow what im try to ask.

There is a lot of argument between arcade and sim ,however i think that people may have gotten mixed up in the differences or at least i have a slightly different approach to the question.

An example would be if you had a F1 racing game with F1 cars and these cars had tank(T90)turrets on them everbody would consider it an arcade game ,however if everything aero ,tires, shell trajectory etc was calculated on real world physics my take on it is that that would be a sim however outlandish the idea of the turrets on the cars.

Next if you take an F1 racing game with F1 cars and everything about the cars is based on real world physics but it dosent have all the rules of F1 then it is a sim

Lastly you have an F1 game that visually mimics what happens the cars but dosent calculate why something is happening thats an arcade game whether it has the F1 rules in it or not because the devs cannont possible account for everything a user might do with the car.

Id like to point out that when i refer to real world physics im only referring to what is possible to calculate on the hardware of today or else we wouldn't have any sims at all.

So i guess to sum this question up does the Codemasters F1 game have a real world physics engine(within hardware limitation)at its heart or not or is it all visual,Man made rules regarding the racing have nothing to do with a game being a sim or not.

Hope that ye can get answers to these 2 questions for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites