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DIY 6DOF platform for Racing using AC gearmotors

39 posts in this topic

Hi,
 
Just want to drop in and present you my DIY racing 6DOF stewart platform using AC motors and VFD inverters:
 
 
 
 
 
 
I use LFS and the new 6DOF plugin for x-sim3 software!! 
 
 
 
 
 
Thanks!
 
Best Regards
Thanos

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Now that is one expensive looking Playseat!

 

Not that expensive at all! As I said in the title its homemade! The playseat was placed on it for easy testing but its was kind of weak frame and we switched it to a real car seat: http://motionsim.blogspot.com/2013/05/6dof-platform-photo.html

 

 

The cost of materials for the mechanic parts of the platform is six times the following:
AC motor 0.75hp = $112
Gearhead 60:1 = $241
AC VFD drive 1HP = $224
Magnetic sensorless position encoder= $15
Supports, rod, arm = $55-$70
 
It is designed to able to lift 800lbs in full speed! Just place the flight cockpit or racing cockpit on top of it and its ready to go!
 

So much inexpensive to built it yourself instead of getting ready built 6DOF platforms (Ckas for example)

 

 

Best Regards,

Thanos

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This is just awesome.  I want to do something just like that.  When might we see a basic write up on how to setup something like this?

 

I'll prepare a proposed setup with specifications, and links to actual vendors and post it on my blog one of the following days. This will be just an example calculated for certain platform load. But there will be some basic calculations as well to size it for any platform load you wish.

 

Apart from the mechanical part, the software takes care of the rest if you provide to it the dimensions of your platform:

http://motionsim.blogspot.com/2013/05/6dof-software-plugin-for-x-sim3-is.html

 

 

Best Regards,

Thanos

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This is just absolutely fantastic!   I can't wait to get started on this.  I was checking prices on those gearheads and I see that if you go down to one that can handle .5 hp the price drops to almost half of what you listed. That would cut $600 off the overall price and you could also use a cheaper VFD and ac motor as well.  I think you could build a rig with driver 3 screens steering wheel and pedals around 400 pounds maybe 500

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You are absolutely right. You can use smaller motors with higher gear ratio and still get a lot of vibration effects passed on the platform. In a 6DOF the motors are cooperating together to create the angles for the motion cues that means that they share the motion travel and the load as well. Using worm gearheads adds another plus in the design as the motors don't have to constantly hold the load spending power and overheating! They spend power only when new position is demanded based on the motion cues. Very efficient compared to the higher currents required for DC motor motion platforms.

 

Best Regards,

Thanos

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Hi guys, 

 

i'm new to this and just looking at possibe setups and solutions before starting a project.

 

One of the questions I have is, whether or not it would be possible to build a solution that can be actually used at night (relative silent setup).

 

Is this possible at an affordable price?

 

Cheers

J.

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Hi guys, 

 

i'm new to this and just looking at possibe setups and solutions before starting a project.

 

One of the questions I have is, whether or not it would be possible to build a solution that can be actually used at night (relative silent setup).

 

Is this possible at an affordable price?

 

Cheers

J.

 

no

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no

 

These are not so loud as you might think! Much more quieter than SCN5 stepper motor for sure!!! See the new video I just posted: http://motionsim.blogspot.com/2013/07/rolf-6dof-platform-video.html

 

And you can eliminate the whining noise more if you use 8Khz frequency in the inverters (instead of 4khz default)

 

Thanos

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is there some way that I can donate money to you for your time

I recommend you do not. I donated money towards to him towards what was supposed to be a simple control board for motion sim control. It turned out to be very complicated and needed a $2500 program to run it.

Dont waste your money.

This guy has enough sources of cash and hides a lot in return.

His AMC is a prime example. The threads on other forums where builders construct it and then cannot get it working properly is astounding. Its because he leaves info out. This means others have to redesign the board and code, of which he steals and uses elsewhere.

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Hi Motiondave,

Why did you continue to disclaim Thanos , Thanos work and his electronics boards ?

1- the princip of donation is a risk token by the one who gives money and esperate results back.Why did you disclaim this princip , I given money too and I don't go in other simulator forum to complain...

2- how many dollars did you give ? Why didn't you give the real amount ? It was 20 dollars , 25 dollars ? So ridiculous amount regarding how you criticize Thanos job and his personality.

3- you said that Thanos 's board didn't work great ... Why did you take the speech to other people , tell us about your experience with Thanos board , give some technical details which didn't work .You always are incline to transmitt your technical experience building sim , why you didn't develop this point ...?

4- Why didn't you explain on this forum why did you leave the other forum where you disclaim unjustified and unfair Thanos.

Below a link with an example of 2 dof AC motors drived by Thanos amc1.6 board that you can build by yourself.This DIY board is really awesome and all job is shared by Thanos.

For me this link is one of the best answer to your unfair und unjustified behavior.Please share your knowledge building sim but not your hate.

http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293

Regards

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Hi Motiondave,

Why did you continue to disclaim Thanos , Thanos work and his electronics boards ?

1- the princip of donation is a risk token by the one who gives money and esperate results back.Why did you disclaim this princip , I given money too and I don't go in other simulator forum to complain...

2- how many dollars did you give ? Why didn't you give the real amount ? It was 20 dollars , 25 dollars ? So ridiculous amount regarding how you criticize Thanos job and his personality.

3- you said that Thanos 's board didn't work great ... Why did you take the speech to other people , tell us about your experience with Thanos board , give some technical details which didn't work .You always are incline to transmitt your technical experience building sim , why you didn't develop this point ...?

4- Why didn't you explain on this forum why did you leave the other forum where you disclaim unjustified and unfair Thanos.

Below a link with an example of 2 dof AC motors drived by Thanos amc1.6 board that you can build by yourself.This DIY board is really awesome and all job is shared by Thanos.

For me this link is one of the best answer to your unfair und unjustified behavior.Please share your knowledge building sim but not your hate.

http://www.x-sim.de/forum/viewtopic.php?t=293

Regards

Thats a heck of a response from a new person, considering thats your first post.

I tried to build an AMC at the beginning , circuit design was wrong, couldnt find parts, so I went to JRK.

I have commented on your link, have a look, no negative response from me, ever.

Thanos is a pioneer and helped heaps of people start with motion sims when there was no decent controller around. I have pointed that out to him and others, several times.

I didnt leave x-sim3 forum, Thanos banned me because I pointed out his rudness towards my polite responses. I refused to be a mod on that forum with someone like him.

Times have changed, there are more controllers and even with Thanos great work, there are solutions that are simpler for stupid people like me whom have virtually no electronic building skills.

If you want to take this further, lets do it via PM and not here.

Also, this is an open forum, if the moderators and admin believe I have stepped out of line, I expect them to let me know.

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I recommend you do not. I donated money towards to him towards what was supposed to be a simple control board for motion sim control. It turned out to be very complicated and needed a $2500 program to run it.

Dont waste your money.

This guy has enough sources of cash and hides a lot in return.

His AMC is a prime example. The threads on other forums where builders construct it and then cannot get it working properly is astounding. Its because he leaves info out. This means others have to redesign the board and code, of which he steals and uses elsewhere.

Cheers for letting us know about these issues. I got really excited about this post initially. Just thought: where's the snag?

Looks like that's no alternative for a simxperience style motion rig for me anyway...because I'm just too dumb for a project like that ;-)

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Cheers for letting us know about these issues. I got really excited about this post initially. Just thought: where's the snag?

Looks like that's no alternative for a simxperience style motion rig for me anyway...because I'm just too dumb for a project like that ;-)

Hi Thirsty ,

Why did you think about th snag ?

Don't really understand what informations in this thread let you think this !!

This topic is talking at the begining from 6dof plateform with AC gearmotors .Today for someone who wants to build a simultor with AC gearmotors from 3 axis to 6 axis Thanos amc1280usb is the solution board to drive the simulator.You can't find easily a DIY board to do this with a great performance.

Obviously a 6 dof with 6 ac gearmotors plus 6 inverters plus the board is a big amount.

Motiondave gave 2 links for a 2dof simulator with DC motors , it's off topic regarding this thread about 6 dof with ac gearmotors.

You will compare simulator which are not playing in the same category !!!

For driving simulator with dc motors there are many solutions , pololu, saberbooth , amc , velleman , new kangeroo from dimendion engeneering ....

I gave in my post a link for a 2dof with ac gearmotors driven by a amc 1.6 .This board is shared by Thanos and you can build it by yourself for building a 2 dof simulator.

Look at Thanos blog there are many 6 dof made with the amc1280usb .This board is sold by Thanos no diy solution.You will notice that some people bought his board for buiding their own diy simulator.

http://motionsim.blogspot.com/

What disturb someone is because this amc1280usb is sold by Thanos.I continue to not understand why that chocks Motiodave or someone else.

Obviously you can build cheaper simulator than a 6 dof with ac gearmotors.It's not the question of this thread , or ?

I forgotten to mention now the multiple solutions to drive simulators with dc motors with Arduino and h-bridge.

But as I said we are not talking from the same simulator performance.The board refresh rate are from far not the same comparating to Thanos amc (hundreds times less than amc)

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Hi Motiondave ,

I really advice you to open a new topic to share your experience , skills , building simulators based with DC motors.

If your real motivation is to share your experience , helping people to build simulators open thread about these skills paralell to this one.

As I know from now you never build simulators based with ac gearmotors and inverters.

For me it will be fair from you and let people have the maximum informations with these two solutions, AC gearmotors / DC Motors.

Regards

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You obviously want to keep this on the forum so lets do so.

Ok, my links are not related to the AMC, but you saying that your link answers all questions is inaccurate.

Yes , thats right, I havent built a simulator with AC motors. So I cannot judge performance and NEVER HAVE.

I NEVER questioned Thanos AMC. 

I only question the developer himself and his means to develop it.

The AMC is capable of many thousands of calcs per second. Thats great, but if the mechanical limitations stop that, its almost pointless having something that reacts at 0.5MS. Even HDD optical arms react at 1-2MS and thanos board goes faster than that. Pointless to some extent on that side of things. Still, its a great board, maybe a little overpriced, but great none the less.

Going back to the 6DOF, this was developed with Ian at BFF, not directly by Thanos. Thanos then "borrowed" code from Ian and took that back to x-sim3 site developers so they can make a 6DOF plugin. Also ask Prilad about "borrowed" code.

a 6DOF build is about $900 ish per DOF in Australia, but with 240v, you need it certified by an electrical engineer for safety or you may get blown to hell and back.

Once again, my point is the developer,and yes I do have a gripe with him. Why should I be silenced. 

Ones man opinion is not much compared to the many whom have had success with the AMC.

There are plenty of people that have had success with him and his board and I have always comments that it works great.

They should be posting their projects here as well.

yes maybe we should have categories for 12v, 24, 240v motion simulators, but why should I have to justify myself constantly about boards. I am not talking about boards, just people behind it.

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Hi Thirsty ,

Why did you think about th snag ?

Don't really understand what informations in this thread let you think this !!

This topic is talking at the begining from 6dof plateform with AC gearmotors .Today for someone who wants to build a simultor with AC gearmotors from 3 axis to 6 axis Thanos amc1280usb is the solution board to drive the simulator.You can't find easily a DIY board to do this with a great performance.

Obviously a 6 dof with 6 ac gearmotors plus 6 inverters plus the board is a big amount.

Motiondave gave 2 links for a 2dof simulator with DC motors , it's off topic regarding this thread about 6 dof with ac gearmotors.

You will compare simulator which are not playing in the same category !!!

For driving simulator with dc motors there are many solutions , pololu, saberbooth , amc , velleman , new kangeroo from dimendion engeneering ....

I gave in my post a link for a 2dof with ac gearmotors driven by a amc 1.6 .This board is shared by Thanos and you can build it by yourself for building a 2 dof simulator.

Look at Thanos blog there are many 6 dof made with the amc1280usb .This board is sold by Thanos no diy solution.You will notice that some people bought his board for buiding their own diy simulator.http://motionsim.blogspot.com/

What disturb someone is because this amc1280usb is sold by Thanos.I continue to not understand why that chocks Motiodave or someone else.

Obviously you can build cheaper simulator than a 6 dof with ac gearmotors.It's not the question of this thread , or ?

I forgotten to mention now the multiple solutions to drive simulators with dc motors with Arduino and h-bridge.

But as I said we are not talking from the same simulator performance.The board refresh rate are from far not the same comparating to Thanos amc (hundreds times less than amc)

Hey mate

My post might have been a bit deceiving. Selfish as I was, I was just looking at that great simulator from the point of view: Is that something I can build or not? It seems like you get bang for the buck big time and I would consider building that thing if it was a somehow easy plug & play solution.

I consider Dave's knowledge about motion rigs far superior to mine. He built a genuine DIY motion rig. What I'm doing is just getting a set of SCN5's and copying a mate's rig which is a copy of a simxperience rig with rear traction loss module. I think that's much easier than what Dave has done.

So I believe this 6DOF motion rig is too difficult for me to build and set up.

That video was interesting and great to watch, but that's it for me.

Would be great if that thing was purchasable as a plug & play DIY kit.

Cheers

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Hi Thirsty,

Building a 6 dof is not so complicated as you are thinking.The price is a big amount but the rest it's a question of motivation and time.

Let me explain you this.

First if you are a noob in everything , mechanics , electronics welding etc ... Clear, start with a 2 dof dc motors or ac motors. You have to consider that most of people after this first step wants to get more sensations.Second step is 3 dof , 4dof , 6dof.

If you start with dc motors today I don't know many people who builded 6dof with dc motors.It's the reason why some people starts with dc motors and after makes a new one with more axis with ac gearmotors or dc motors but until 4 axis as I watch today.

About the plug and play , let me laught about what you think.Let me kill this think properly...:-)

My pc keyboard , my mouse , my Mac , my washmachine , my xbox360, my ps3.... Are plug and play...

Building a simulator with dc motors or ac motors aren't plug and play... In both case you have to wire a lot of stuff .If you have the schematics , help from other users you can build with motivation your simulator.

If not you can buy it directly from reseller but it's not the same price and not the same fun.

For both configurations ac motors / dc motors there are enought support for building simulators.Today more in dc motors because first simulators are moved with wiper motors that you can find easily everywhere.There are cheap , quiet easy to drive.

First difficulty with dc motors is the power you need .Wiper motor in 12 V you will suck 80 W ,no problem.If you want more power with dc motors 180W you will suck more , more current.I made a 2 dof with bigworm dc motors and one motor can suck instantanetly 30A.

My friend to drive this current that become not so easily as someone wants to let you know.I could link you many topics from people who had some smoked psu or burned h-bridge.I don't say that it's impossible because me or motiondave and many others made successfull simulators but the current sucked is high.

The big advantage with ac geared motors is that is the cheapest , common motors you can find.With the gearbox you reach enormous torque and with a right choosen inverter a fantastic dynamic solution.

As you plugged to your home current net (240V) , you will suck maximal 3 A !!

Motiondave said that you have to be engineer to wired a simulator with ac motors .I don't know the law in Australia but it's for me a bullshit.

If you take the decision to build simulator in your home , you take anyway the risk .Both case it's your own responsability...

For both simulators you have to have skills to wired your electric box.

For ac motors , like dc motors with psu ( with car battery as psu your are not plugged to your home net) you are protected with your home circuit breaker differential at 30 or 40 mA.

I 'm writing here not to promote the ac motors versus dc motors , I just try to give a another point of view for someone like me who really know both configurations.

If you don't achieve to go throught these difficulties I mentionned in this post buy a simulator .

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